Author Topic: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 412634 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #255 on: April 15, 2015, 02:42:55 PM »
That folder must be bulging by now 8)--))

The PJ didn't put it in theirs, apparently, which suggests that what they did put in theirs was even less relevant and believable than this one.
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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #256 on: April 15, 2015, 02:48:26 PM »

....

25 May 2007

Earlier, it emerged British police have taken a more active role on the ground in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. Experts have begun working around the holiday apartment in southern Portugal where the she went missing three weeks ago. Police would not say which British force had sent the two specialists, who could be seen taking measurements and walking around with plans of the crime scene in Praia da Luz.

....

29 May 2007

Experts from Britain are attempting to trace the abductor of Madeleine McCann by following a trail left by mobile telephone signals.

A team of British telecommunications specialists has arrived in the Algarve to attempt to pinpoint the movements of telephones around the resort complex where Madeleine was abducted 26 days ago.

....

Trails are created by silent transmissions sent out by every mobile phone even when not in use. Each signal is picked up by masts, which create a timed computer log of the handset’s movements. By measuring the strength of the signal, the location of the handset can often be narrowed to an area as small as a few square yards.

Detectives will use the information to verify statements provided by guests and staff at the Ocean Club complex, where Madeleine was taken from her bed.

The quote above is extensively edited by me to get to the phone data.

If these reports are to be believed, by 29 May the British experts had everything in place to locate everyone with a mobile to a well-defined trail that evening.  So why are we still waiting for a resolution?  We know who was in the local pubs and restaurants, who was tucked up cosy at home, and who was in the 5A zone.  Simples.

Do I have to look up when the PJ got their hands on widespread records for phone activity around Luz re 3rd May?  Pity they only got the data transmissions from the phone companies, not the control information.

Mind you, it was nice of the same Portuguese companies to hand over confidential and comprehensive details of phone records so promptly to the Brits.  And wasn't it a bit naughty of the Brits not to hand this over to the PJ?

If it looks like a red herring and it smells like a red herring ....
What's up, old man?

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #257 on: April 15, 2015, 05:03:44 PM »


I thought we'd established on the 'ambient lighting' thread that there was no motion sensitive lighting or any other lighting near G5A?

The ambient lighting thread concerned the car park at the front of the building and the childrens' bedroom window.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #258 on: April 15, 2015, 05:04:30 PM »
That folder must be bulging by now 8)--))

  ... and so it should be.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #259 on: April 15, 2015, 05:05:42 PM »
So, given that this woman was standing by the patio door, where is this light likely to be?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #260 on: April 15, 2015, 07:14:05 PM »
As a matter of interest, do you believe this witness?

The document is in Spanish, dated to 1 Nov 2007.  She didn't bother telling the Portuguese police.  She didn't bother telling the Leicestershire police, but she felt the need to pass this info to the Spanish 7 months after Madeleine disappeared.

The document seems a bit muddled on dates.  The only way I can make sense of an Aug/Sep 2006 date is by changing it so that she was working for 6 months up to Oct 2006, not from Oct 2006.

She now remembers an event that took place in 5A on a Thursday night but can't remember if it was in August or September.

The parents were out at the tennis night.  It was 00:30, and they were not back.

Worried about rats, Margaret popped her head out the main entrance.  (Why?  Were the rats around there so noisy one could hear them, or did Margaret randomly check for rats?)

By the movement sensitive lights she saw a brown object move.  (Neither Margaret nor the 'rat' had moved enough to switch on the light.)

When she looked closer she saw the rat was a man, who then moved (again) this time setting on the movement sensitive lights.

Then from the words  "No, no" she could deduce that he was Portuguese.

She told her supervisor, who passed it on to John Hall.  The supervisor is not named.  However, Margaret is privy to the information that both were worried about rats.  Why were they worried about rats, given that Margaret had not seen a rat?

John Hill makes no mention of this lurking man in his statement.  Who knows, perhaps SY got him back in to ask him about it (oh and the entire set of lost keys he never mentioned).  Perhaps Margaret's supervisor was Donna Hill, and SY hauled her in for the same reason.

No one in the T9 mentions a movement sensitive light, though if one had been disabled, they might well not have noticed it.

No one who was interviewed on the basis that they had previously occupied 5A mentions such a light.  Again, if it was disabled, perhaps they did not notice it.

Why, if there was a motion sensitive light near 5A, did they not repair it, as opposed to tacking a floodlight on block 5 months or years later?

Margaret's tale is in my red herrings folder.

I find Margaret Hall's statement no more credible or incredible than anything else which is in the public domain.

According to Margaret Hall she spoke to Metodo3 who contacted the PJ because she had heard nothing from her local police to whom she had reported the incident.

I presume she spoke to them in English and they transcribed her information into Spanish (if there is no translation into Portuguese it rather suggests that no-one from the investigation bothered to read it).

If Margaret Hall had not been employed in the capacity she stated … why has no -one come forward to share that information with us?

The fact that John Hill failed to mention rats is not in the least surprising ~ he didn't mention the very recent burglaries in the block either.

In the tabloid article to which Margaret hall contributed, she stated that she was on her way home, was so unnerved by the encounter that she ran back to the apartment and had to be escorted home.

All easily verifiable … and would have been worth the police checking it out, I think, particularly as she says she had a clear view of his face.

**snip
Margaret yesterday told the Mirror she saw the prowler hiding in the dark as she left through the back entrance after baby-sitting at apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, the year before Maddy was taken from the apartment.

She screamed in terror as the unshaven figure stepped out.

His movement set off a security light and the nanny clearly saw his face. "He came towards me saying 'no, no'. I just turned round and ran back to the apartment," she said.

Shaking with fear, she was later led back to her own flat.
 

**snip
She was back in the UK when she heard of Maddy's disappearance in May last year - and a chill ran down her spine when she realised the little girl had been taken from the apartment where she had worked.

Her mind immediately pictured the scruffy, long-haired stranger.

She told police in her home town of Bolton and was interviewed but no photofit was ever issued.

**snip
After hearing nothing from the police in the UK, she went straight to Metodo 3, the private investigators working for Kate and Gerry.
They passed her information to Portuguese police, who dismissed it as being "out-dated".
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189

Margaret Hall did not make claims on his nationality from “No! No!” in the same Mirror article she says,
"He had said 'no' in English but he was not English because of his skin colouring. He looked more Portuguese than anything."

As I said no more and no less credible than any other statement given in good faith ... but with at least two opportunities for confirmation ...
(a) a check with the people she was babysitting for if she had returned, and whoever escorted her home
(b) did her bosses remember the rat incident


I seem to remember also that a previous occupant of 5A had complained about an outside light not working or being broken ... I cannot find a cite for it, maybe someone can help? ... the motion sensitive light mentioned by Margaret hall was my interest in this ... wonder if this was the broken light I remember being mentioned?


No it wasn't ... the light I read about was the one at the front door ... that would be another point for verification of Margaret Hall's statement ... was there a motion sensitive light in the back area of the apartment?


**snip
We would always enter and leave the apartment through the main door with gave way to the parking area and the street. We did not use the pool-side doors as it was not possible to close them from the outside. It was get very dark outside our door and that left us a bit scared. The darkness was due to a faulty/wasted bulb.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 07:23:59 PM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #261 on: April 15, 2015, 07:42:35 PM »
"Descreve a porta como a porta principal para entrar nos apartamentos, actualmente na parte traseira."

Now that bit is in Portuguese and it is in the files so it was reported to the PJ and they did note it down.

After that Google translate does its best for Portuguese to English.

"Describes the door and the front door to enter the apartment, currently on the back."

Now we have a problem.  Is the door on the front, or is it to the back?  Please note, I am using front for car park, rear for garden towards Tapas.  Whether the witness is or not.

Porta principal is easy.  Despite what Google says, it means the main door.  Whether the main door is on the front or on the rear.  The principal entrance.

Then Google 'does a whoopsie' by getting the front door to the back.  Or does it?  Traseira definitely means back.  Thus Google got it right that Margaret could not tell the difference between front and back.  She made the main door to the back - the garden with bushes for man to hide in.  With much later to come, open patio doors.

Or the man was outside the porta principal, the main door, the door leading to the car park, with no bushes to hide behind.  And no movement sensor lights.  And no rat.
What's up, old man?

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #262 on: April 15, 2015, 07:56:56 PM »
"Descreve a porta como a porta principal para entrar nos apartamentos, actualmente na parte traseira."

Now that bit is in Portuguese and it is in the files so it was reported to the PJ and they did note it down.

After that Google translate does its best for Portuguese to English.

"Describes the door and the front door to enter the apartment, currently on the back."

Now we have a problem.  Is the door on the front, or is it to the back?  Please note, I am using front for car park, rear for garden towards Tapas.  Whether the witness is or not.

Porta principal is easy.  Despite what Google says, it means the main door.  Whether the main door is on the front or on the rear.  The principal entrance.

Then Google 'does a whoopsie' by getting the front door to the back.  Or does it?  Traseira definitely means back.  Thus Google got it right that Margaret could not tell the difference between front and back.  She made the main door to the back - the garden with bushes for man to hide in.  With much later to come, open patio doors.

Or the man was outside the porta principal, the main door, the door leading to the car park, with no bushes to hide behind.  And no movement sensor lights.  And no rat.

The translation in the files makes it clear that it is the poolside or patio doors to which she referred ... should have been easy enough to determine if there was a light of the type described at the time in question.

References regarding which is classed as front and which as back door has caused nearly as much confusion and accusation as the misinterpretation of Kate McCann asking for a priest.

**snip
After this she returned to the apartment in a state of shock, it was obvious that there was no good reason for him to be hiding in the darkness outside the apartment. She said that the front door was the main door to enter the apartment, situated at the back. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #263 on: April 15, 2015, 08:18:32 PM »
The translation in the files makes it clear that it is the poolside or patio doors to which she referred ... should have been easy enough to determine if there was a light of the type described at the time in question.

References regarding which is classed as front and which as back door has caused nearly as much confusion and accusation as the misinterpretation of Kate McCann asking for a priest.

**snip
After this she returned to the apartment in a state of shock, it was obvious that there was no good reason for him to be hiding in the darkness outside the apartment. She said that the front door was the main door to enter the apartment, situated at the back. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

Surely patio doors can't be described as the main door? apart from anything else, they couldn't be entered from outside with a key, which is usually a feature of a 'main' door.
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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #264 on: April 15, 2015, 08:51:14 PM »
We did get a great efit and at least it was released  8)--))



Margaret Hall added: “My description of the man is very similar to that of Jane Tanner’s. He had long hair but it was quite scruffy and straggly looking. He had said ‘no’ in English but he was not English because of his skin colouring. He looked more Portuguese than anything.”
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline jassi

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #265 on: April 15, 2015, 08:59:19 PM »
We did get a great efit and at least it was released  8)--))



Margaret Hall added: “My description of the man is very similar to that of Jane Tanner’s. He had long hair but it was quite scruffy and straggly looking. He had said ‘no’ in English but he was not English because of his skin colouring. He looked more Portuguese than anything.”

That's because it didn't look like you know who and so was quite safe to use.  ?{)(**
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #266 on: April 15, 2015, 09:07:21 PM »
That's because it didn't look like you know who and so was quite safe to use.  ?{)(**

And he still hasn't been found  ?>)()<
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Anna

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #267 on: April 15, 2015, 09:13:50 PM »
We did get a great efit and at least it was released  8)--))



Margaret Hall added: “My description of the man is very similar to that of Jane Tanner’s. He had long hair but it was quite scruffy and straggly looking. He had said ‘no’ in English but he was not English because of his skin colouring. He looked more Portuguese than anything.”

IIRC That tannerman e-fit was not made until 2008. Do you have the previous ones, Pat?
All a bit weird looking in sketches!
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #268 on: April 15, 2015, 09:19:27 PM »
Surely patio doors can't be described as the main door? apart from anything else, they couldn't be entered from outside with a key, which is usually a feature of a 'main' door.

Don't chin me about it ... check out the files and take it from there.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #269 on: April 15, 2015, 09:30:52 PM »
IIRC That tannerman e-fit was not made until 2008. Do you have the previous ones, Pat?
All a bit weird looking in sketches!

I think that is the efit the FBI artist collaborated on with Jane??

Margaret Hall's was apparently helped by the Daily Mirror ... I would suggest that if they didn't call in the local kindergarten for assistance ... it may be one drawn by Margaret herself?

The Mirror article was dated 20th August.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....