Author Topic: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 412703 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1140 on: June 15, 2015, 02:54:59 PM »
I think I've seen it mentioned that quite a lot of illicit sub-letting happens, making it difficult to tie down who was where at any given time.

@Anna ... don't have an opinion about the definition of 'hard' evidence ... quite content to leave it to your good judgement.

Thank you Brietta, I did check out my definition, with a retired C.I.D officer.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pegasus

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1141 on: June 15, 2015, 03:01:04 PM »
Did I say anyone hid Madeleine under there?

The police spent  lot of time and energy looking for a missing child who they believed had wandered, in a search no doubt radiating from the centre as that is not only protocol but the sensible course of action.

Where is more central than Block 5?  There are no outbuildings to be searched ... but there may be a cellar.  We know from the evidence that the crawl space under Casa Liliana was searched.  There is no evidence that ...
(a)  block five has a deep cellar underneath
(b)  there is no evidence that if it has, that area was searched.

There are many instances of people and children falling into lift shafts (just Google it).
IMO the cavities in between the foundation walls underneath the south halves of apartments 5A to 5F would have been filled with rubble before construction of the the concrete floors of 5A to 5F.

Offline Anna

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1142 on: June 15, 2015, 03:04:23 PM »
Hard evidence is the subject of this discussion. Please adhere to this. Thank you.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline misty

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1143 on: June 15, 2015, 03:08:29 PM »
Exactly, Eleanor.
I also had these suspicions as do some others.
However there is no proof of anything, connected to that apartment because it was not investigated(that we know of)and nothing was found that can be classed as hard evidence, relating to the crime  being discussed.

OK lets try and define what hard evidence is.
It was my understanding that anything found and proved to be associated with the crime, but not witness statements, as they cannot always have the proof to substantiate them.

The dogs smelling rotten meat is only evidence that the dogs smelled rotten meat.

I agree that this should have been investigated further, since a cleaner would have cleaned the apartment after the departure of a guest, unless of course the owner made her own arrangements for cleaning……………..Anyway it should have been checked out, but was not.

Therefore in the instance of the rotten meat, there was no hard evidence of the crime which was being investigated.

If you disagree with this then please supply a site that proves otherwise.


The search & rescue dogs were looking what was supposedly Madeleine's scent, nothing else. Do search & rescue dogs show an interest in every dead animal they come across whilst searching the mountainside? Or do they only signal to their handlers when they scent what they are trained to?
Illicit sub-letting or otherwise - someone unknown had recently put food in that apartment, presumably with the intention of it being eaten within the apartment. Surely, when a child goes missing, and there is hard evidence a stranger HAD been in 5J but was no longer there, that person should have been looked for/at as a matter of priority?

Offline pegasus

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1144 on: June 15, 2015, 03:16:05 PM »
That is an opportunity to ask about the significance of the rotting meat found in 5J in relation to the abduction theories.
Who put the foodstuffs in the fridge & when?
Why was it put there?
The PJ reported 5J had been unoccupied for months. It took them a week to get an access key. But SOMEBODY had recently had access - the fact that the food was smelling indicated it was very actively decomposing, therefore relatively fresh.
Why wasn't 5J forensically examined?
Police were completely unable to obtain a door key for 5J (and there is hard evidence for that).
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 03:19:16 PM by pegasus »

Offline Eleanor

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1145 on: June 15, 2015, 03:23:59 PM »
The search & rescue dogs were looking what was supposedly Madeleine's scent, nothing else. Do search & rescue dogs show an interest in every dead animal they come across whilst searching the mountainside? Or do they only signal to their handlers when they scent what they are trained to?
Illicit sub-letting or otherwise - someone unknown had recently put food in that apartment, presumably with the intention of it being eaten within the apartment. Surely, when a child goes missing, and there is hard evidence a stranger HAD been in 5J but was no longer there, that person should have been looked for/at as a matter of priority?

That's what I think. Someone watching?

Neither Owners or legitimate guests go off and leave rotting food in the fridges of holiday appartments.  This I know for a fact.

Offline misty

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1146 on: June 15, 2015, 03:44:53 PM »
Police were completely unable to obtain a door key for 5J (and there is hard evidence for that).

Someone who was in the vicinity during that period had a key, Pegasus. Someone had to go to the apartment & put the food in there.

Offline jassi

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1147 on: June 15, 2015, 03:48:25 PM »
Someone who was in the vicinity during that period had a key, Pegasus. Someone had to go to the apartment & put the food in there.


Indeed, but presumably we don't know when this food was placed there. Maybe it was weeks or months old.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1148 on: June 15, 2015, 04:00:21 PM »

Indeed, but presumably we don't know when this food was placed there. Maybe it was weeks or months old.

All the more reason to find out, don't you think? Or is it standard police practice to overlook empty apartments which show signs of recent habitation when a child has gone missing?

Offline jassi

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1149 on: June 15, 2015, 04:02:27 PM »
What were the signs of recent  habitation, other than rotting food of  an uncertain age ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1150 on: June 15, 2015, 04:13:23 PM »
What were the signs of recent  habitation, other than rotting food of  an uncertain age ?
If the PJ couldn't obtain the key, then presumably there was no key kept locally in PDL.
Why would someone travel to 5J, deposit some (presumably locally purchased) food in the fridge, leave the fridge door open & then leave?

Offline jassi

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1151 on: June 15, 2015, 04:19:27 PM »
I guess we don't have the information to answer that question.
 Unless there is some definitive date regarding occupancy, all else is merely supposition and speculation.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pegasus

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1152 on: June 15, 2015, 04:28:13 PM »
Door J5 was deadlocked. No key available. Here is GNR dog waiting to be let in through a window. PJ are inside and just starting to raise shutter.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 04:30:51 PM by pegasus »

Offline Carana

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1153 on: June 15, 2015, 05:00:06 PM »
Door J5 was deadlocked. No key available. Here is GNR dog waiting to be let in through a window. PJ are inside and just starting to raise shutter.

Thanks, but I can't see the dog in that photo. If the PJ were already inside, why was the GNR dog waiting to go in through a window?

Offline pegasus

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1154 on: June 15, 2015, 05:14:32 PM »
Thanks, but I can't see the dog in that photo. If the PJ were already inside, why was the GNR dog waiting to go in through a window?
The green suit is the handler, the dog head is visible, it is looking at the window shutter being raised by the PJ inside. The door cannot be opened from inside because it is deadlocked and no key available. The dog is let in through the only dog accessible window.