The Quality of Witnesses in the Case.

[misty]

1. The first people in the apartment were Kate and Gerry. The shutters and window were open.
2. Gerry closed the shutters
3. Amy arrived. Before Gerry closed the shutters? In that case she ran in with them. So she knew just before they did? She must have done to arrive at the apartment at the same time because she had further to run. Also,  the woman who told Amy about it must have known before the McCanns did. However;
4. Amy saw a friend in the apartment also.
5. This could have been Fiona or Dianne.
6. Fiona didn't see the shutters open.
7. Dianne wasn't sure, but she did arrive after Fiona, as Dianne said she was there. As Fiona didn't see the shutters open, neither did Dianne.
8. Please explain how Amy saw the open shutters.

Who was Amy's translator?

[Alfred R Jones]

Remember this from an earlier post of yours Alfie :

'Why did they not put the time of the alert at around 10.10pm or 10.15pm which would have been much closer to Gerry's stated time '

Which is exactly what the PJ did.

They didn't though did they Faithlilly?  They put the time as between 10pm and 10.10pm (at the latest) meaning Gerry must have been mistaken when he said Kate was gone for 10 minutes. 

[Mr Gray]

the quality of the witnesses is the same as in every other case except we have never had so much information to pick over. It's comical to see the troof seekers trying so hard to discover something which simply isn't there

[jassi]

They didn't though did they Faithlilly?  They put the time as between 10pm and 10.10pm (at the latest) meaning Gerry must have been mistaken when he said Kate was gone for 10 minutes.

Gerry make a mistake ?  Surely not 

[faithlilly]

They didn't though did they Faithlilly?  They put the time as between 10pm and 10.10pm (at the latest) meaning Gerry must have been mistaken when he said Kate was gone for 10 minutes.

I think what PF and I have shown, although we disagree on the finer detail, is that within the timeframe suggested by the witnesses that there was indeed time for Gerry to have been the Smith's Smithman.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Meanwhile ~ in 2015

I am at a loss why people cannot accept that Operation Grange used PJ files which were professionally translated.

They had access to all the PJ files including those which have been withheld.

It is risible that it is thought they did not reinterview witness and interview new witnesses before progressing from review to investigation … what on earth did these people suppose the review was all about ... and from where did they think the evidence came from to allow the progression?

Common sense dictates that the officers of Operation Grange have looked at and collated all the information available in 2007 and have taken it into account. 
I am sure their investigative tool for doing this carried a heavier punch than good old Excel ever could.

Timelines ~ statements ~ Tannerman ~ Smithman ~ who was where and when et al, will all have been professionally analysed … so please do try to move on folks and find something more up to date and less threadbare with which to berate Madeleine McCann's parents. 


Are you very important? where do you get off telling people to 'move on'?  why don't you and your trolling friends /move on?

No one here is berating or slagging off the parents,how dare you accuse posters of such a thing, we are disucssing time lines... this is a discussion forum after all..oh and the thread title is about witnesses.



**snip

Police from Scotland Yard have identified 38 people of interest including 12 UK nationals following a two-year review of evidence in the case.

None of the 38 people identified are known to the McCanns.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said his team has carried out new witness interviews and was in a "unique position" in analysing information from police in Portugal and the UK, as well as seven private detective firms.


**snip

"It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation.

We have identified 38 persons of interest from a number of European countries.

Twelve of those people are UK nationals who we believe were in Portugal at the time Madeleine disappeared.

"Our working relationship with the Portuguese police is positive and now that we have moved to investigation we are requesting further specific assistance through normal judicial routes.

We remain in close contact with Kate and Gerry McCann and they are updated on our current position."


**snip

Police have interviewed witnesses, found new evidence and are working on new theories about what happened to Madeleine.


**snip

He stressed that neither her parents nor the McCanns' friends who were having dinner with them that night are among the 38 people identified.

"Neither her parents or any of the members of the group who were with her are either persons of interest or suspects.

"They (the McCanns) are parents who have lost their daughter and we are doing all we can to bring resolution for them to find out what has happened to Madeleine."

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/231942-madeleine-mccann-disappearance-investigated-in-new-met-police-probe/

[Miss Taken Identity]

Oh look someone has been playing with my posts, as well as removing them. Oh dear, bad show indeed.

Anyway, as this topic was about Witnesses at the scene, I was saying the time line was inportant to discuss, But SOMEONE said we should stop berating the McCANNS...Hmm


I DID NOT ADD THIS TO MY QUOTE.

**snip

Police from Scotland Yard have identified 38 people of interest including 12 UK nationals following a two-year review of evidence in the case.

None of the 38 people identified are known to the McCanns.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said his team has carried out new witness interviews and was in a "unique position" in analysing information from police in Portugal and the UK, as well as seven private detective firms.


**snip

"It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation.

We have identified 38 persons of interest from a number of European countries.

Twelve of those people are UK nationals who we believe were in Portugal at the time Madeleine disappeared.

"Our working relationship with the Portuguese police is positive and now that we have moved to investigation we are requesting further specific assistance through normal judicial routes.

We remain in close contact with Kate and Gerry McCann and they are updated on our current position."


**snip

Police have interviewed witnesses, found new evidence and are working on new theories about what happened to Madeleine.


**snip

He stressed that neither her parents nor the McCanns' friends who were having dinner with them that night are among the 38 people identified.

"Neither her parents or any of the members of the group who were with her are either persons of interest or suspects.

"They (the McCanns) are parents who have lost their daughter and we are doing all we can to bring resolution for them to find out what has happened to Madeleine."

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/231942-madeleine-mccann-disappearance-investigated-in-new-met-police-probe/.

Admin? anything to say about this?

[Brietta]

Quote from: Brietta on April 12, 2015, 11:53:49 PM

Meanwhile ~ in 2015

I am at a loss why people cannot accept that Operation Grange used PJ files which were professionally translated.

They had access to all the PJ files including those which have been withheld.

It is risible that it is thought they did not reinterview witness and interview new witnesses before progressing from review to investigation … what on earth did these people suppose the review was all about ... and from where did they think the evidence came from to allow the progression?

Common sense dictates that the officers of Operation Grange have looked at and collated all the information available in 2007 and have taken it into account. 
I am sure their investigative tool for doing this carried a heavier punch than good old Excel ever could.

Timelines ~ statements ~ Tannerman ~ Smithman ~ who was where and when et al, will all have been professionally analysed … so please do try to move on folks and find something more up to date and less threadbare with which to berate Madeleine McCann's parents. 



**snip

Police from Scotland Yard have identified 38 people of interest including 12 UK nationals following a two-year review of evidence in the case.

None of the 38 people identified are known to the McCanns.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said his team has carried out new witness interviews and was in a "unique position" in analysing information from police in Portugal and the UK, as well as seven private detective firms.


**snip

"It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation.

We have identified 38 persons of interest from a number of European countries.

Twelve of those people are UK nationals who we believe were in Portugal at the time Madeleine disappeared.

"Our working relationship with the Portuguese police is positive and now that we have moved to investigation we are requesting further specific assistance through normal judicial routes.

We remain in close contact with Kate and Gerry McCann and they are updated on our current position."


**snip

Police have interviewed witnesses, found new evidence and are working on new theories about what happened to Madeleine.


**snip

He stressed that neither her parents nor the McCanns' friends who were having dinner with them that night are among the 38 people identified.

"Neither her parents or any of the members of the group who were with her are either persons of interest or suspects.

"They (the McCanns) are parents who have lost their daughter and we are doing all we can to bring resolution for them to find out what has happened to Madeleine."

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/231942-madeleine-mccann-disappearance-investigated-in-new-met-police-probe/

Was there any particular point you were trying to make?

[Miss Taken Identity]

 "so please do try to move on folks and find something more up to date and less threadbare with which to berate Madeleine McCann's parents."

Are you a mod? how important is your rants compared to other people who have something to say. We have to 'move on' on your say so?

You have no right to accuse people who come here to discuss issued on a forum as being here just to berate parents. Why do you come here? certainly not to find out information about what may have happened.

Witness statements is this thread title, of people who were there on the night- nothing to do with NSY witnesses, but then you know that.  You do make more people distrust the McCANNS due to your trolling.

[Brietta]

"so please do try to move on folks and find something more up to date and less threadbare with which to berate Madeleine McCann's parents."

Are you a mod? how important is your rants compared to other people who have something to say. We have to 'move on' on your say so?

You have no right to accuse people who come here to discuss issued on a forum as being here just to berate parents. Why do you come here? certainly not to find out information about what may have happened.

Witness statements is this thread title, of people who were there on the night- nothing to do with NSY witnesses, but then you know that.  You do make more people distrust the McCANNS due to your trolling.

    
You have an extremely limited view of what exactly constitutes "witness statements" ... and appear to have glossed over the fact that the arguidos and persons of interest recently questioned were also "there on the night".

[Miss Taken Identity]

All those witnesses NSY were interviewing were there on the night?  really? you have evidence? because as time has told, some claim they were not there on the night. Murat being one of them.

No limited views from me, I am the broad minded one- open to all sorts of theories to discuss on a  DISCUSSION forum.

[Anna]

1. The first people in the apartment were Kate and Gerry. The shutters and window were open.
2. Gerry closed the shutters
3. Amy arrived. Before Gerry closed the shutters? In that case she ran in with them. So she knew just before they did? She must have done to arrive at the apartment at the same time because she had further to run. Also,  the woman who told Amy about it must have known before the McCanns did. However;
4. Amy saw a friend in the apartment also.
5. This could have been Fiona or Dianne.
6. Fiona didn't see the shutters open.
7. Dianne wasn't sure, but she did arrive after Fiona, as Dianne said she was there. As Fiona didn't see the shutters open, neither did Dianne.
8. Please explain how Amy saw the open shutters.

I can find nothing that states that Gerry finally closed the shutters at this time and Diane said that it was quite light in the bedroom when she arrived.
Do you have a cite for Gerry closing them permanently at this time? I possibly missed it.


Does he say that he closed the shutters again at this time or indeed the window, which may have been done while, or after Amy arrived.
I can think of no reason why Amy would lie, which appears to be what you are inferring or do you believe it was a mistake in the statement?


The deponent ran into the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open to one side, the shutters almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE's bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cots. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scenario that she found when she entered the apartment.

(The group did not go into the apartment with Kate and Gerry at this time)

Then he closed the shutters, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside. They continued with searches outside, around the various apartment blocks, the deponent having asked MATHEW to go to the secondary reception in order to communicate the fact to the local police, since he had no doubt that his daughter had been abducted. He refutes, peremptorily, the possibility that MADELEINE could have left the apartment by her own means.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post524.html#p524

[pathfinder73]

Everybody sprinted back to our apartment, except for Dianne, who remained in the Tapas area, and Jane, who was away from the table seeing to her kids. I remember feeling frustrated when David said, ‘Let’s just check the apartment.’ I’d done that, and I knew, I knew, that Madeleine had been abducted. I ran out into the car park, flying from end to end, yelling desperately, ‘Madeleine! Madeleine!’ It was so cold and so windy. I kept picturing her in her short-sleeved Marks and Spencer Eeyore pyjamas and feeling how chilled she would be. Bizarrely, I found myself thinking it would have been better if she’d been wearing her long-sleeved Barbie ones. Fear was shearing through my body.
In the children’s room, Gerry lowered the shutter at the open window. Rushing outside, he made the sickening discovery that it could be raised from this side, too, not just from inside as we’d thought. (Madeleine)

If Kate was flying though the car park then she didn't see Gerry lower the shutter.

Dianne couldn't raise the shutters from the outside. Contradiction alert! Shutters were down not up when Dianne arrived. Shutters were down not up when the police arrived.

I wonder if somebody else was flying though the car park because it leads you to the wasteland and then to the Smiths sighting  &%+((£

[G-Unit]

Everybody sprinted back to our apartment, except for Dianne, who remained in the Tapas area, and Jane, who was away from the table seeing to her kids. I remember feeling frustrated when David said, ‘Let’s just check the apartment.’ I’d done that, and I knew, I knew, that Madeleine had been abducted. I ran out into the car park, flying from end to end, yelling desperately, ‘Madeleine! Madeleine!’ It was so cold and so windy. I kept picturing her in her short-sleeved Marks and Spencer Eeyore pyjamas and feeling how chilled she would be. Bizarrely, I found myself thinking it would have been better if she’d been wearing her long-sleeved Barbie ones. Fear was shearing through my body.
In the children’s room, Gerry lowered the shutter at the open window. Rushing outside, he made the sickening discovery that it could be raised from this side, too, not just from inside as we’d thought. (Madeleine)

If Kate was flying though the car park then she didn't see Gerry lower the shutter.

Dianne couldn't raise the shutters from the outside. Contradiction alert! Shutters were down not up when Dianne arrived. Shutters were down not up when the police arrived.

I wonder if somebody else was flying though the car park because it leads you to the wasteland and then to the Smiths sighting  &%+((£

First I've heard of anyone flying through car parks. Funnily enough Mrs Carpenter heard someone calling 'Madeleine', but between 9.15 and 9.30pm.  &%+((£

[pathfinder73]

First I've heard of anyone flying through car parks. Funnily enough Mrs Carpenter heard someone calling 'Madeleine', but between 9.15 and 9.30pm.  &%+((£

Flying through the car parks lead you to the Smith sighting. It only takes 2 minutes to get there at that speed