Author Topic: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?  (Read 144708 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2015, 01:58:47 PM »
Quite so Jassi.   The mystery surrounding the refusal to publish the e-fits timeously is rightly an enduring one.  Private investigators go to the trouble and expense to have e-fits provided of a mystery man who could very well hold the key to Madeleine's disappearance, subsequently confirmed by DCI Redwood on Crimewatch yet the public never saw these e-fits for 5 years and even now the FM website gives them no prominence.  Is there any wonder people are sceptical?

From the Sunday Times article of 27 October 2013...

The McCann fund source said the Oakley report was passed on to new private investigators after the contract ended, but that the firm’s work was considered “contaminated” by the financial dispute.

He said the fund wanted to continue to pursue information about the man seen by Tanner, and it would have been too expensive to investigate both sightings in full — so the Smith E-Fits were not publicised. It was also considered necessary to threaten legal action against the authors.

“[The report] was hypercritical of the people involved . . . It just wouldn’t be conducive to the investigation to have that report publicly declared because . . . the newspapers would have been all over it. And it would have been completely distracting,” said the source.

A statement released by the Find Madeleine fund said that “all information privately gathered during the search for Madeleine has been fully acted upon where necessary” and had been passed to Scotland Yard.

It continued: “Throughout the investigation, the Find Madeleine fund’s sole priority has been, and remains, to find Madeleine and bring her home as swiftly as possible.”


www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2794.msg95381#msg95381


“[The report] was hypercritical of the people involved . . .
Erm... we could speculate until the cows come home who "those involved" may be. "Involved" in what? The disappearance or in the investigation more generally?

The fact is that the report hasn't been made public, and therefore the insinuations in that article can't be critically examined.

Offline John

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2015, 02:36:56 PM »

“[The report] was hypercritical of the people involved . . .
Erm... we could speculate until the cows come home who "those involved" may be. "Involved" in what? The disappearance or in the investigation more generally?

The fact is that the report hasn't been made public, and therefore the insinuations in that article can't be critically examined.

Why has the Report never been made public?   Is it a case, as I have suspected for some time, that there is a lot of cherry picking going on in this case and any information which could take the lustre off the McCanns public image is being suppressed just as the e-fits were?

I will never understand how e-fits which could have been so crucial to the case were discarded as unimportant?

 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 02:43:45 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline jassi

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2015, 02:40:33 PM »
Why has the Report never been made public I wonder?

I suppose because it is SY that got hold of it and they don't open up such things to  public scrutiny.
Prior to that it would have been in private hands who intended it to remain private and perhaps never see the light of day.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2015, 03:25:20 PM »
There are problems with naming these two e-fits as 'Smithman' because it seems highly unlikely that the Smiths could have provided enough detail for e-fits, as two out of three said in May 2007 that they probably wouldn't be able to recognise him. In addition, they refused to produce e-fits when visited by Brian Kennedy, according to Martin Smith. He also refused to speak to the press and sent solicitor's letters to those who speculated about him. In May Mr Smith was concerned to stress that the man he saw wasn't Robert Murat. In September he was 60 - 80% sure that the man was Gerald McCann, based more on the way he held his head and carried his son than on how he looked facially. I have to wonder if he would have helped Oakley International to produce e-fits later in 2008, when they were also working for Brian Kennedy. If he did them with SY then it was a very long time after the event. DCI Redwood, of course, said the e-fits were produced by 'two witnesses'. He didn't say who the witnesses were.

Aoife Smith said on 26th May'

the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.
— She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him almost completely at the top.
— She did not see what shoes he was wearing.

Martin Smith said;

Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same.

Peter Smith said;

The description of the individual who carried the child was: Caucasian, around 175 to 180 cm tall. About 35 years, or older. He was somewhat tanned as a result of sun exposure. Average build, in good shape. Short hair, brown in colour. He does not remember if he wore glasses, or had a beard or a moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad.
— He also does not remember the clothing the individual wore or his shoes. States that it would not be possible to recognize the individual in person or via photograph.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm#p6p1611
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Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2015, 03:27:42 PM »
In an attempt to excuse the lapse it was suggested a while back that by providing the Smith e-fits to both LC and the PJ the parents had effectively done what was required of them.  Sorry but that just doesnt cut it for me.  If my kid had disappeared and there was the tiniest possibility that the person who took her had been seen and there were e-fits of him available I would be plastering Luz with them in order to get a result no matter what any police force advised.
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2015, 03:33:22 PM »
But then again if the e-fits looked like me I wouldnt be in a big rush to stick up posters everywhere.   &%&£(+
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.

Offline Carana

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2015, 03:38:46 PM »
Why has the Report never been made public?   Is it a case, as I have suspected for some time, that there is a lot of cherry picking going on in this case and any information which could take the lustre off the McCanns public image is being suppressed just as the e-fits were?

I will never understand how e-fits which could have been so crucial to the case were discarded as unimportant?

Why should a private investigation's report be open to public scrutiny? If it were public, it wouldn't be private, would it?

There could be all kinds of information within it, some of which may be of use to law enforcement, some of which may have been discarded long ago.

The PJ appear to have found plugs for their leaky cauldron. I doubt that we'll hear anything new about the case until either there is a new appeal, Madeleine is found and/or someone is charged.

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2015, 03:42:35 PM »
Why should a private investigation's report be open to public scrutiny? If it were public, it wouldn't be private, would it?

There could be all kinds of information within it, some of which may be of use to law enforcement, some of which may have been discarded long ago.

The PJ appear to have found plugs for their leaky cauldron. I doubt that we'll hear anything new about the case until either there is a new appeal, Madeleine is found and/or someone is charged.

What happened to the promise of transparency given by the parents at the outset?  Would see-through not be better?
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2015, 03:54:33 PM »
I wonder how Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3 knew that the Smiths even existed? Who told them that the Smiths had made statements to the PJ?
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Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2015, 04:00:14 PM »
I wonder how Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3 knew that the Smiths even existed? Who told them that the Smiths had made statements to the PJ?

It was mentioned in Irish papers in 2007, and English ones the first week in January 2008.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2015, 04:00:58 PM »
I see that my thread title has been changed.  The question I originally asked was - are the McCanns afraid of the Smithman e-fits (to the point where they will do anything not to draw attention to them).  This is a "sceptic" belief, because some "sceptics" believe that the Met are playing mindgames with the McCanns and have decided to go after Gerry by dismissing Tannerman and focusing on Smithman, by highlighting  a pair of e-fits that they (the Met) believe depict Gerry.  The fact that the Official Find Madeleine page has not once but SEVEN times posted these e-fits, and then put a permanent "watch video" link to the Crimewatch programme at the top of their page suggests to me that the McCanns are quite comfortable with the way the Met's investigation is going.  The only evidence that "sceptics" can scrape together to suggest the opposite is true is a) the fact that the e-fits don't appear on the official website, however this website seems not to be very active anymore and b) the fact that, despite being re-posted 7 times the e-fits are not used as the OFM FB page's cover photo.  This is very weak evidence indeed to support the "sceptic" belief, in my view. 

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2015, 04:05:03 PM »
Why should a private investigation's report be open to public scrutiny? If it were public, it wouldn't be private, would it?

There could be all kinds of information within it, some of which may be of use to law enforcement, some of which may have been discarded long ago.

The PJ appear to have found plugs for their leaky cauldron. I doubt that we'll hear anything new about the case until either there is a new appeal, Madeleine is found and/or someone is charged.

You've got a point there. I wouldn't trust those associated with Halligen to deliver a bottle of milk never mind a report- but if I interpret correctly it was intended for the people following them (Edgar & Cowley) not for the public?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2015, 04:06:41 PM »
Incidentally the Smithman e-fits were the OFM Facebook's cover photo for a whole month from October to November 2013.  Now, that's not nearly long enough for people like Faithlilly, but if the McCanns really WERE terrified of these e-fits then they could simply have chosen to ignore them altogether, but the fact is - they haven't.  They gave them extreme prominence at the time of the Crimewatch programme and for weeks afterwards.  The fact that they are no longer pinned to the top of the FB page may be for a variety  of reasons, not least that the Met may have decided to scale down their importance to the investigation.  It's possible isn't it?

Offline John

Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2015, 04:07:48 PM »
There are problems with naming these two e-fits as 'Smithman' because it seems highly unlikely that the Smiths could have provided enough detail for e-fits, as two out of three said in May 2007 that they probably wouldn't be able to recognise him. In addition, they refused to produce e-fits when visited by Brian Kennedy, according to Martin Smith. He also refused to speak to the press and sent solicitor's letters to those who speculated about him. In May Mr Smith was concerned to stress that the man he saw wasn't Robert Murat. In September he was 60 - 80% sure that the man was Gerald McCann, based more on the way he held his head and carried his son than on how he looked facially. I have to wonder if he would have helped Oakley International to produce e-fits later in 2008, when they were also working for Brian Kennedy. If he did them with SY then it was a very long time after the event. DCI Redwood, of course, said the e-fits were produced by 'two witnesses'. He didn't say who the witnesses were.

Aoife Smith said on 26th May'

the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.
— She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him almost completely at the top.
— She did not see what shoes he was wearing.

Martin Smith said;

Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same.

Peter Smith said;

The description of the individual who carried the child was: Caucasian, around 175 to 180 cm tall. About 35 years, or older. He was somewhat tanned as a result of sun exposure. Average build, in good shape. Short hair, brown in colour. He does not remember if he wore glasses, or had a beard or a moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad.
— He also does not remember the clothing the individual wore or his shoes. States that it would not be possible to recognize the individual in person or via photograph.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm#p6p1611

As far as I recall from the BBC Crimewatch, DCI Redwood attributed the two e-fits to the Smiths or more correctly to an Irish family who could only be the Smiths.  As it would have been standard police practise to check this out before going public, we have no reason therefore to doubt the veracity of what he stated.

It could very well be that several e-fits were attempted between the older members of the nine who met the man that night.  The two which have been revealed could very well be the best of the bundle and quite possibly not that accurate when all is taken into account.  After all, aren't both e-fits supposed to be the same man, I emphasize the word 'supposed'!

« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 04:09:59 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2015, 04:08:56 PM »
Incidentally the Smithman e-fits were the OFM Facebook's cover photo for a whole month from October to November 2013.  Now, that's not nearly long enough for people like Faithlilly, but if the McCanns really WERE terrified of these e-fits then they could simply have chosen to ignore them altogether, but the fact is - they haven't.  They gave them extreme prominence at the time of the Crimewatch programme and for weeks afterwards.  The fact that they are no longer pinned to the top of the FB page may be for a variety  of reasons, not least that the Met may have decided to scale down their importance to the investigation.  It's possible isn't it?

%£&)**# It is. But you can't blame people for wondering why they aren't on the website can you?