The Smithman e-fits - are the McCanns less than happy with them?

[faithlilly]

Good point Brietta.
IMO one of these two "smithman" efits was possibly done by a female british tourist who supposedly saw a man that night speaking in english on his mobile phone and carrying a child. Not in the files - it was a newspaper report.

And why do you think it's not in the files Pegasus ?

[pathfinder73]

What on earth are you on about, Pathfinder ... neither Dr McCann or Diane Webster could possibly have fitted the Smithman description even if they had been wearing beige trousers, even if the trousers had ... buttons.

Anyway ... why do you suppose Smithman has anything at all to do the efits?  How can they be one and the same?

In the three Smith statements given a fortnight after the event to which we have access all are in agreement that they did not see his face.

So whoever the efits represent ... it cannot be the man the Smiths said they saw ... for the simple reason none of them saw his face.

GM & DW was about their camera being on the table on 3 May. Smithman will be revealed and young Aoife said she saw his face by the light but he moving quickly with the child trying not to be recognised (between a fast walk and a run).

[Alice Purjorick]

What on earth are you on about, Pathfinder ... neither Dr McCann or Diane Webster could possibly have fitted the Smithman description even if they had been wearing beige trousers, even if the trousers had ... buttons.

Anyway ... why do you suppose Smithman has anything at all to do the efits?  How can they be one and the same?

In the three Smith statements given a fortnight after the event to which we have access all are in agreement that they did not see his face.

So whoever the efits represent ... it cannot be the man the Smiths said they saw ... for the simple reason none of them saw his face.

Wasn't DCI Redwood's opinion slightly at variance with that statement?

[Brietta]

GM & DW was about their camera being on the table on 3 May. Smithman will be revealed and young Aoife said she saw his face by the light but he moving quickly with the child trying not to be recognised (between a fast walk and a run).

Young Aoife wasn't at all certain of which day it was they flew back from Portugal and stated that she wouldn't be able to 'recognise' either the man or the child so as far as substantiating your rather redundant theory goes ... Aoife Smith is a non-starter.
The three Smiths were unable to describe the man's features to the PJ ... so why and when would they acquire the eye witness ability to describe what they did not see to enable efits to be produced?

[Brietta]

The three Smiths to whose statements we have access, were unable to provide adequate descriptions of the man they said they said they had seen when they reported their encounter a fortnight after the event.

[pathfinder73]

The three Smiths to whose statements we have access, were unable to provide adequate descriptions of the man they said they said they had seen when they reported their encounter a fortnight after the event.

SY have spoken to the Smith family since those statements. The efits were released by SY on the CW special and Tannerman dropped. Detectives can also be crafty by sending a clear message to him. They knew he wouldn't come forward and they have been proven to be correct.

[ShiningInLuz]

GM & DW was about their camera being on the table on 3 May. Smithman will be revealed and young Aoife said she saw his face by the light but he moving quickly with the child trying not to be recognised (between a fast walk and a run).

I would translate the Portuguese as saying that the individual's walk was normal, (Aoife) knowing how to distinguish this from a fast walk and a run.

Whether this is accurate or not, there is nothing about trying not to be recognised.

[pegasus]

And why do you think it's not in the files Pegasus ?

Re the female brit tourist who reportedly passed a man carrying a child and speaking native english on mobile phone.
Probably it is a witness who came forward to the Crimewatch appeal.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers.html

[Brietta]

SY have spoken to the Smith family since those statements. The efits were released by SY on the CW special and Tannerman dropped. Detectives can also be crafty by sending a clear message to him. They knew he wouldn't come forward and they have been proven to be correct.

Yes, there is possibly a very good reason that he has failed to come forward ... then we do not really know if he has are or not since the investigation has remained shtum about all aspects of the case.

Everything about 'smithman' is very speculative indeed ... I would place little reliance on anything we think we know about him.  Maybe we should start referring to him as the invisible man.

Any thoughts yet about how certain you are that the information for the efits was provided by the Smiths ... bearing in mind Aoife was able to describe the man she said she saw down to the buttons on his trousers ... but affirmed she could not recognise or describe his features.

[mercury]

The three Smiths to whose statements we have access, were unable to provide adequate descriptions of the man they said they said they had seen when they reported their encounter a fortnight after the event.

So where did the efits come from? If not the Smiths? As reported in all the papers

[pegasus]

So where did the efits come from? If not the Smiths? As reported in all the papers

IMO possibly one efit may be by a different member of smith party (for example maybe the child who was the only one to remember black jacket and barefeet).
And possibly other efit by a brit tourist (not smith party) who a portuguese newspaper reports saw a talking-on-phone-while-carrying-child-man.

[mercury]

IMO possibly one efit may be by a different member of smith party (for example maybe the child who was the only one to remember black jacket and barefeet).
And possibly other efit by a brit tourist (not smith party) who a portuguese newspaper reports saw a talking-on-phone-while-carrying-child-man.

I thought you said this witness who saw the smithman talking on a mobile phone (which the smiths didnt) came forward after crimewatch, that was years after the efits were created

Oakley (who said the smiths created these efits) never mentioned this witness and why would witness come forward after crimewatch just to say i helped create efit???

[ShiningInLuz]

O caminhar do individuo era normal, sabendo distinguir o mesmo entre o andar  apressado e o correr.  O mesmo nao aparentava cansaco, deslocando-se da forma normal quando se leva uma crianca ao colo. (AS)

The same (person) did not appear tired... {i.e. the child had not been a burden sufficient to tire the man}

... moving in a normal way when one carries a child ...

The only bit that may be problematical is ao colo - to the lap, to the neck.

However. the whole thing simply means the man was walking normally, did not appear tired, and was carrying the child in a normal manner.

If Aoife meant something else, she did not get it across in her statement.

[sadie]

The same (person) did not appear tired... {i.e. the child had not been a burden sufficient to tire the man}

... moving in a normal way when one carries a child ...

The only bit that may be problematical is ao colo - to the lap, to the neck.

However. the whole thing simply means the man was walking normally, did not appear tired, and was carrying the child in a normal manner.

If Aoife meant something else, she did not get it across in her statement.

Any decent parent carrying their sleeping child down steps from an aircraft would carry in exactly the same way as Gerry  .... and the parent would look down in the same manner to watch where his feet went on the steps.


I believe that Mr Smith rethought this scenario and decided to dismiss it?

[pathfinder73]

O caminhar do individuo era normal, sabendo distinguir o mesmo entre o andar  apressado e o correr.  O mesmo nao aparentava cansaco, deslocando-se da forma normal quando se leva uma crianca ao colo. (AS)

The same (person) did not appear tired... {i.e. the child had not been a burden sufficient to tire the man}

... moving in a normal way when one carries a child ...

The only bit that may be problematical is ao colo - to the lap, to the neck.

However. the whole thing simply means the man was walking normally, did not appear tired, and was carrying the child in a normal manner.

If Aoife meant something else, she did not get it across in her statement.

Why is 'between a hurried walk and run' in the translation? There is no need to have it there if it was normal walking at a normal speed.

They left the bar, and went up some steps that give access to a road just above. On this road they took a side street, the name of which he does not know, in the direction of Estrela da Luz. Immediately at the beginning of this road he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally, with a fairly quick step because he was coming downhill. It appeared normal to him, like father and daughter.  (PS)