Were the dog alerts in any way significant?

[pathfinder73]

What are the chances of the only clothing (out of a huge amount in total) to be alerted to -  just happening to have all been packed into the same box?       Considering the number of containers involved -  the odds of that happening merely by coincidence must be massive.

Why didn't Eddie alert to the same clothing whilst it was in the villa - but instead -  only alerted to them after they were removed and taken elsewhere?

Clothes have to be screened separately. The dogs have to sniff up close to positively alert to clothes. Eddie doesn't bark alert unless unless he is certain.

[Benice]

Clothes have to be screened separately. The dogs have to sniff up close to positively alert to clothes. Eddie doesn't bark alert unless unless he is certain.

I thought Eddie could detect cadaverscent even though it was buried a couple of feet underground.   Surely clothes situated in drawers/wardrobes would be a walk in the park for him?

Cuddlecat was completely ignored  by Eddie whilst it was lying separately on the floor.  But apparently was alerted to when placed in a cupboard.

That would seem to contradict your claim PF.

[pathfinder73]

I thought Eddie could detect cadaverscent even though it was buried a couple of feet underground.   Surely clothes situated in drawers/wardrobes would be a walk in the park for him?

Cuddlecat was completely ignored  by Eddie whilst it was lying separately on the floor.  But apparently was alerted to when placed in a cupboard.

That would seem to contradict your claim PF.

Nope that was a toy which can confuse the dog so Eddie marked it and brought it out of the bin. A second test was done and the toy was hidden from the dog to confirm. Clothes have to be screened separately. Go ask the experts the reason why.

[G-Unit]

Nope that was a toy which can confuse the dog so Eddie marked it and brought it out of the bin. A second test was done and the toy was hidden from the dog to confirm. Clothes have to be screened separately. Go ask the experts the reason why.

Similarly the key fob to the car was put into a bucket of sand for a confirmation test and both dogs alerted to it again.

[ferryman]

The inspection of clothing was inexplicable.

Some 3 months after the crime, clothing, not kept in special storage pending inspection, but in common circulation as clothing is (worn, washed, packed into suitcases ... etc.) was inspected once in the villa without reaction from either dog.

Then it was bundled into bog-standard cardboard boxes, transported to a separate location (the gym!) and laid out for a second inspection.

Keela went first and detected nothing.

Then Eddie went, barked a few times, picked a few things up in his mouth and the canard was born that Eddie detected death scent of Kate's clothes ...

Bizarre beyond words ...

[pathfinder73]

The inspection of clothing was inexplicable.

Some 3 months after the crime, clothing, not kept in special storage pending inspection, but in common circulation as clothing is (worn, washed, packed into suitcases ... etc.) was inspected once in the villa without reaction from either dog.

Then it was bundled into bog-standard cardboard boxes, transported to a separate location (the gym!) and laid out for a second inspection.

Keela went first and detected nothing.

Then Eddie went, barked a few times, picked a few things up in his mouth and the canard was born that Eddie detected death scent of Kate's clothes ...

Bizarre beyond words ...

Eddie's first class record in cases and finding proof of death scent and bodies is the reason why his alerts will be taken seriously by the police.

[Admin]

The inspection of clothing was inexplicable.

Some 3 months after the crime, clothing, not kept in special storage pending inspection, but in common circulation as clothing is (worn, washed, packed into suitcases ... etc.) was inspected once in the villa without reaction from either dog.

Then it was bundled into bog-standard cardboard boxes, transported to a separate location (the gym!) and laid out for a second inspection.

Keela went first and detected nothing.

Then Eddie went, barked a few times, picked a few things up in his mouth and the canard was born that Eddie detected death scent of Kate's clothes ...

Bizarre beyond words ...

Had the case ever come to trial the gym and the underground car park fiascos would have been laughed out of court.

[Benice]

Nope that was a toy which can confuse the dog so Eddie marked it and brought it out of the bin. A second test was done and the toy was hidden from the dog to confirm. Clothes have to be screened separately. Go ask the experts the reason why.

The dogs were not capable of making such observations IMO.     They are trained to detect certain odours wherever they are found - and do not have the capability to ignore some items because  - (although they can smell cadaverscent on them)  - they know they are toys. 

The same goes for the clothing.  The dogs are not aware it is clothing they are 'screening'.   All they know is that if they detect a certain odour they have to 'alert'.   What the item is which they are alerting to and where it is situated makes no difference to the dogs at all.

Have you any views on the fact that all the items alerted to in the gym - came out of the same box.    No items from any other boxes were alerted to.

[DCI]

The inspection of clothing was inexplicable.

Some 3 months after the crime, clothing, not kept in special storage pending inspection, but in common circulation as clothing is (worn, washed, packed into suitcases ... etc.) was inspected once in the villa without reaction from either dog.

Then it was bundled into bog-standard cardboard boxes, transported to a separate location (the gym!) and laid out for a second inspection.

Keela went first and detected nothing.

Then Eddie went, barked a few times, picked a few things up in his mouth and the canard was born that Eddie detected death scent of Kate's clothes ...

Bizarre beyond words ...

Every single item should have been bagged seperatly. I wonder what was picked up from the first dirty floor, the clothes were laid out on, before being re packed and laid out again.


And, why would they need to take cuddle cat, to this venue, when already screened?

[Benice]

Eddie's first class record in cases and finding proof of death scent and bodies is the reason why his alerts will be taken seriously by the police.

Grime admits himself that mistakes can be made - even in his own line of work.

Quote from the Mail on Sunday

Grime admitted to The Mail on Sunday that the dog’s licence had lapsed. He said: ‘After I retired, my dogs were tested according to my own standards which are more stringent than ACPO’s. But Jersey is not in the UK, so they were in their rights to employ whoever they wanted.’ He said his fees were ‘all agreed’ and that he had given Jersey a ‘discount’.

Asked about the ‘human remains’ found by Eddie that turned out to be coconut, Grime said bizarrely: ‘People aren’t right 100 per cent of the time. Otherwise they wouldn’t be human.’

The auditors’ interim report concludes: ‘It was an expensive mistake to bring in Mr Grime. It would have been far preferable and much cheaper to have tried to obtain appropriately trained dogs and handlers from UK police forces.’

Harper, it adds, did not consider this option. For much of the time Grime spent on Jersey, the report reveals, he was not even working with his dogs, but as an assistant to the Haut de la Garenne crime scene manager – duties for which he had no qualifications, and which did ‘not justify the payment to him of £650 a day’.

Meanwhile, Harper approached the National Police Improvement Agency (NPIA), the body that co-ordinates all UK national police functions and training, asking for advice about forensic experts and equipment such as ground-penetrating radar.

End quote.

[Montclair]

Had the case ever come to trial the gym and the underground car park fiascos would have been laughed out of court.

The clothes were not laid out in the underground car park.

[Eleanor]

I simply refused to believe that isolated items of clothing, boxed up among many others, can retain Cadaver Odour after three months.

[Admin]

Every single item should have been bagged seperatly. I wonder what was picked up from the first dirty floor, the clothes were laid out on, before being re packed and laid out again.


And, why would they need to take cuddle cat, to this venue, when already screened?

The Portuguese were totally overwhelmed by this investigation, the screenings in the gym and the car park were chaotic, arranged on the spur of the moment with little thought being given to the way in which the test items were handled.  A unmitigated shambles.

[Admin]

The clothes were not laid out in the underground car park.

Thats correct but I was referring to the motor vehicles.

[OxfordBloo]

I would still like to know who got paid for the gaunt to Portugal.

I suspect it was Martin Grime himself.

Eddie's Licence was out of date by then so he wouldn't have been allowed to operate in UK.

I suspect he was on leave and knew that doing it would be good advertising fot his new business venture.