Were the dog alerts in any way significant?

[OxfordBloo]

I will take a look later but if you're working on this case you need to look at the dogs involved not others or general reports.

That is rubbish. Such research generalises to all scent dogs. There is nothing special about Eddie.

[Alfred R Jones]

How about your applying your "generalised research" into to how the handler`s belief affected the dogs` performance in the specific case under discussion?

Go on.........run it past me............then I might have something relevant to the topic to say about it.

oxfordBloo has already covered this.  Grime knew which car and apartment pertained to the McCanns.  He knew he was there to help find evidence against them.  The research I have linked to makes it clear that conscious or unconscious handler bias can effect their dogs' performance, is it not possible that this is what happened on this occasion?  Google also Zampo the sniffer dog who alerted multiple times in the case of the serial killer who never was - handlers were told where they might find human remains, the dog alerted to 45 separate locations, it subsequently turned out no bodies had ever been disposed of at those locations.  Why did this happen do you think?

[Carew]

"Research" needs to be applied to the individual case in order for its relevance to be examined, questions answered and conclusions drawn .

[pathfinder73]

That is rubbish. Such research generalises to all scent dogs. There is nothing special about Eddie.

No you're talking rubbish. There was something special about Eddie - that's why those dogs were chosen for the Madeleine McCann disappearance 

[OxfordBloo]

No you're talking rubbish. There was something special about Eddie - that's why those dogs were chosen for the Madeleine McCann disappearance 

Rubbish.

Reliable independent cite please.

[OxfordBloo]

"Research" needs to be applied to the individual case in order for its relevance to be examined, questions answered and conclusions drawn .

No. Such results generalise.

All scent dogs use the same sense organs.

All scent dogs have the same type of relationship with their handler.

[pathfinder73]

Rubbish.

Reliable independent cite please.

There is in this thread. The English sent their best dogs over to Portugal and the world was watching!

[Carew]

oxfordBloo has already covered this.  Grime knew which car and apartment pertained to the McCanns.  He knew he was there to help find evidence against them.  The research I have linked to makes it clear that conscious or unconscious handler bias can effect their dogs' performance, is it not possible that this is what happened on this occasion?  Google also Zampo the sniffer dog who alerted multiple times in the case of the serial killer who never was - handlers were told where they might find human remains, the dog alerted to 45 separate locations, it subsequently turned out no bodies had ever been disposed of at those locations.  Why did this happen do you think?

Well, actually no............it wasn`t covered .

Links to generalised research accompanied by wordy bullshit doesn`t count, although it impresses some.

 The queries were not addressed and generalised research into handler bias did not explain the specific alerts or non alerts and how they were achieved by "handler bias."

P.S.

 You do realise that responding to your posts puts me at risk of accusations of WUMMING by Brietta and being called an "it" who should be ignored and treated with the contempt It deserves ?

I don`t want to attract such nastiness again.

[Carew]

No. Such results generalise.

All scent dogs use the same sense organs.

All scent dogs have the same type of relationship with their handler.

Each case has its own set of variables.

[Alfred R Jones]

"Research" needs to be applied to the individual case in order for its relevance to be examined, questions answered and conclusions drawn .

So this research tells us nothing at all about the realtionship between sniffer dogs and handlers that can be applied to Eddie and Grime in your view?

[Alfred R Jones]

Well, actually no............it wasn`t covered .

Links to generalised research accompanied by wordy bullshit doesn`t count, although it impresses some.

 The queries were not addressed and generalised research into handler bias did not explain the specific alerts or non alerts and how they were achieved by "handler bias."

P.S.

 You do realise that responding to your posts puts me at risk of accusations of WUMMING by Brietta and being called an "it" who should be ignored and treated with the contempt It deserves ?

I don`t want to attract such nastiness again.

Your PS is of no interest to me, I have no idea what you're referring to. 

Is it your view that it is quite impossible for conscious or unconscious handler bias to be a factor in Eddie's alerts?  If so, why do you believe this? 

[slartibartfast]

That is rubbish. Such research generalises to all scent dogs. There is nothing special about Eddie.

The fact that the research was conducted by someone who was interested in human communications and specifically told the handlers that each room may contain multiple scent sources, is not representative of normal working conditions.

[Carew]

So this research tells us nothing at all about the realtionship between sniffer dogs and handlers that can be applied to Eddie and Grime in your view?

You need to be specific about how this relationship affected the alerts in the case under discussion.

Good night...........the snooker final beckons.

[Alfred R Jones]

The fact that the research was conducted by someone who was interested in human communications and specifically told the handlers that each room may contain multiple scent sources, is not representative of normal working conditions.

If you hire a sniffer dog and handler and take them to a location in an investigation then that is because you suspect that the location may reveal some evidence relevant to your investigation, yes?

[Carew]

Your PS is of no interest to me, I have no idea what you're referring to. 

Is it your view that it is quite impossible for conscious or unconscious handler bias to be a factor in Eddie's alerts?  If so, why do you believe this?

Ah right!.....It was this.........(I would understandably find it less easy to forget.)


Quote from: Brietta on Today at 07:57:38 PM

You have merely replaced me in this WUM affection, Alfred, it has one objective and imo that is to cause as much friction as possible ... it is really doing its best to disrupt the forum which is why I treat it with the contempt it deserves and ignore it.