Were the dog alerts in any way significant?

[Alfred R Jones]

Well old son to paraphrase your comment to Faithlilly earlier....now remind me what was it you said?.
200 times sounds a lot. My first reaction on reading the article was 200 out of how many. I didn't find out how many. Do you know?
So you think the author's statement that more work needs to be done to clarify certain things, like "operator intervention", is not relevant or even suggestive that a firm conclusion cannot properly be reached.
It matters not anyway as long as it is recognised as a possible phenomenon by the operator.

I don't suppose you're that interested but on the off chance that you are may I refer you to this... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3078300/

[pathfinder73]

A point in which a  dog is able to smell cadaver odour hasn't been established either.   The body farm were using bodies that had been dead a while.   In order to ascertain when the odour is first picked up by the dog something would have to have been taken from the dead body as soon as that person had died.

Attracta Harron's body lay in a room for only 1 hour before disposal and Eddie alerted to it months later.

'How long does a cadaver have to be in contact with a surface or an object for the odour to be detected''

Cross-contamination is immediate.

[Alfred R Jones]

Attracta Harron's body lay in a room for only 1 hour before disposal and Eddie alerted to it months later.

'How long does a cadaver have to be in contact with a surface or an object for the odour to be detected''

Cross-contamination is immediate.

It also depends how long since the moment of death.

[Carew]

And maybe Grime did not emit a tell.

And maybe the bathroom did not emit cadaver odour.

[pathfinder73]

It also depends how long since the moment of death.

So if SY find proof that she's dead and that she died inside that apartment then it wasn't by the hands of a stranger who would have quickly removed the body because Eddie wouldn't alert. Is that what your saying?

[Alice Purjorick]

I don't suppose you're that interested but on the off chance that you are may I refer you to this... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3078300/

It is interesting but consider this position.
I buy an instrument to measure anything you care to name. I know that it is not 100% accurate because nothing can be. It will have an inaccuracy on reading and on full scale deflection. If I know this [it will be stipulated] I can allow for it in any computation I care to make. I am going to use the instrument in two capacities; as a measuring device and as a comparator. As the measuring device the inaccuracies are important to know as a comparator the inaccuracies do not matter in real terms. That's how things work. The fact that something may not be 100% accurate, because it can't be any way, is not important provided the degree of of inaccuracy can be reasonably allowed for in analysis.See my post on the other thread.

[Alfred R Jones]

So if SY find proof that she's dead and that she died inside that apartment then it wasn't by the hands of a stranger who would have quickly removed the body because Eddie wouldn't alert. Is that what your saying?

No, what makes you think I'm saying any of that?!

[Admin]

It also depends how long since the moment of death.

The experiment you highlight in your signature is most interesting Alfred.  The article certainly puts a lot of what we have previously heard about CSI dogs into context.  I would agree that we mostly hear about the success of these dogs and rarely hear of their failures.

[Mr Gray]

It is interesting but consider this position.
I buy an instrument to measure anything you care to name. I know that it is not 100% accurate because nothing can be. It will have an inaccuracy on reading and on full scale deflection. If I know this [it will be stipulated] I can allow for it in any computation I care to make. I am going to use the instrument in two capacities; as a measuring device and as a comparator. As the measuring device the inaccuracies are important to know as a comparator the inaccuracies do not matter in real terms. That's how things work. The fact that something may not be 100% accurate, because it can't be any way, is not important provided the degree of of inaccuracy can be reasonably allowed for in analysis.See my post on the other thread.

no one...including Grime...knows what significance those alerts have...I would say that is  a fact

[Alfred R Jones]

It is interesting but consider this position.
I buy an instrument to measure anything you care to name. I know that it is not 100% accurate because nothing can be. It will have an inaccuracy on reading and on full scale deflection. If I know this [it will be stipulated] I can allow for it in any computation I care to make. I am going to use the instrument in two capacities; as a measuring device and as a comparator. As the measuring device the inaccuracies are important to know as a comparator the inaccuracies do not matter in real terms. That's how things work. The fact that something may not be 100% accurate, because it can't be any way, is not important provided the degree of of inaccuracy can be reasonably allowed for in analysis.See my post on the other thread.

And you accuse OxfordBloo of wordy bs.   

What do you make of the 45 incorrect alerts by Zampo in the case of the swedish serial killer that never was?  How do you apply what you have written above to his woeful performance?

[OxfordBloo]

It is interesting but consider this position.
I buy an instrument to measure anything you care to name. I know that it is not 100% accurate because nothing can be. It will have an inaccuracy on reading and on full scale deflection. If I know this [it will be stipulated] I can allow for it in any computation I care to make. I am going to use the instrument in two capacities; as a measuring device and as a comparator. As the measuring device the inaccuracies are important to know as a comparator the inaccuracies do not matter in real terms. That's how things work. The fact that something may not be 100% accurate, because it can't be any way, is not important provided the degree of of inaccuracy can be reasonably allowed for in analysis.See my post on the other thread.

I remember that from a course I did on scientific measurement.

[Carana]

Eddie alerted behind the couch in G5A and to the car. Keela also alerted. Samples were taken and DNA was found. Finding DNA in the samples means the dog alerts were correct. Forensic analysis was not able to say what the substance sampled was, but as Keela alerts to blood and only blood we can assume that the substance was blood. If the alerts were due to 'bias' please tell me how Grime knew where the samples were going to be found?

I don't get the logic of that. The area where Keela alerted was tested for biological residue (with some DNA found as a result of lab analysis). Fine, so far, so good. But how does anyone know whether the other walls had biological residue on them? They weren't tested, were they? I would have thought that a normal dwelling would have traces of biological material all over the place.

[Alice Purjorick]

no one...including Grime...knows what significance those alerts have...I would say that is  a fact

Your point being?

[Alice Purjorick]

And you accuse OxfordBloo of wordy bs.   

What do you make of the 45 incorrect alerts by Zampo in the case of the swedish serial killer that never was?  How do you apply what you have written above to his woeful performance?

Probably a poorly calibrated instrument 
If a Swedish geezer has an instrument that is defective that is no reason for me to believe a similar instrument I am using is also defective. I would calibrate my instrument as a matter of course at regular intervals.
Ya'll seem to be getting into a muck sweat over doggies. I have already said [elsewhere on this forum] that I believe if a dog alerts there are three possibilities one of which has two separate sub divisions. The usefulness of the data being variable from "gotcha" to "about as helpful as teats on a boar". I don't happen to think dogs are a synthesis of Billy Batson and Paul Metcalfe. Nor do I subscribe to the theory they are by definition useless.

[mercury]

no one...including Grime...knows what significance those alerts have...I would say that is  a fact

I bet he has a fairer idea than you though...I would say that is a fact