CSI and cadaver dogs - some facts and statistics.

[jassi]

The problem with digging holes is that finding nothing proves nothing - you may just be digging in the wrong place.

[OxfordBloo]

What?   You missed all the media reporting on where, when and why they were digging up parts of Praia da Luz?    Do you honestly believe they weren't looking for remains?

I don't deny they were looking for remains. What I do deny is any certainty that they might ONLY be searching for remains which was the import of the statement I was countering.

[John]

I don't deny they were looking for remains. What I do deny is any certainty that they might ONLY be searching for remains which was the import of the statement I was countering.

Well naturally anything else which could link back to Madeleine would have been a bonus but I have no doubt they were hoping for a breakthrough with the discovery of remains.  This was Redwood's last throw of the dice, his final hand.

[Mr Gray]

You're right, on their own they aren't. But when combined with the evidence of the training of the dog they are.

not without independent testing ...they are not

[OxfordBloo]

Well naturally anything else which could link back to Madeleine would have been a bonus but I have no doubt they were hoping for a breakthrough with the discovery of remains.  This was Redwood's last throw of the dice, his final hand.

There is a high level of assumption on this board.

We have no idea how the investigations are doing or what is their subject.

[Carana]

Well naturally anything else which could link back to Madeleine would have been a bonus but I have no doubt they were hoping for a breakthrough with the discovery of remains.  This was Redwood's last throw of the dice, his final hand.

None of us know what exactly was of interest in those searches. It could have been related to potential indications concerning direct or indirect evidence.

For all anyone knows there could have been some delusional glory-seeker whose assertions had to be ruled out.

[jassi]

SY have certainly been deadly silent, officially at least, for the last 6 months.

[Angelo222]

SY have certainly been deadly silent, officially at least, for the last 6 months.

It seems austerity is alive and well at SY.

[Carana]

SY have certainly been deadly silent, officially at least, for the last 6 months.

The wonders of air-conditioning ;)

[Angelo222]

Thinking of your "smiley" at the prosepct of the the investigation stopping.

The investigation was dead the moment the parents began to criticise it with Philomena McCann uttering public criticisms as early as 5 May 2007.

Back on topic.   Cadaver dogs are a wonderful tool in the investigative process but can never be relied upon and that is why Mr Grime always insisted that without additional forensic evidence they were ultimately deemed unreliable.

[OxfordBloo]

Now who was it said...

I note you have failed to address the mathematical reasoning on the square of probabilities and are merely being abusive.

[Jean-Pierre]

In considering statistics, it may be worth remembering the Sally Clark case.  The "eminent" expert witness Professor Roy Meadow got his stats "confused" and cost a bereaved mother her liberty and ultimately her life. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Clark

[OxfordBloo]

In considering statistics, it may be worth remembering the Sally Clark case.  The "eminent" expert witness Professor Roy Meadow got his stats "confused" and cost a bereaved mother her liberty and ultimately her life. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Clark

This misconception is even worse. For decades medical researchers used the 'simple' assumption that any repeat measurements increased the validity, only to be informed by more advanced statisticians that decisions dependent on two sequential measurements such as I have described actually reduces the validity.

It should be noted that no one has tried to counter the logic, just claims to authority.

[pathfinder73]

The FBI considers them -- Martin Grime and his 7-year-old, English Springer Spaniel, Eddie -- two of the best in the law enforcement speciality of canine forensics, able to find evidence everyone else missed.

"A small amount of forensic evidence," for example, "may be under a board in a house, or under a large boulder, and things like that, where forensic evidence can't normally be recovered from. We'll use the dogs to try and locate it for us," Grime said.

Grime and Eddie are in high demand, world wide. Getting them to Walker County from England to help solve Theresa Parker's disappearance is an indication of how high a priority her case is for the FBI, according to one FBI agent close to the case.

Eddie is a veteran of more than 200 homicide cases, working with Grime, who has 30 years' of law enforcement and military experience in conducting criminal investigations.

http://archive.thv11.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=52985

14 September 2007
 Chattanooga Times/Free Press
Chloe Morrison

The investigation into the disappearance of Walker County 911 dispatcher Theresa Parker is a "high-priority" case, FBI agents said Thursday, and authorities unveiled tools to be used in the search.

Martin Grime, a 30-year veteran of military and civil police work in the United Kingdom and developer of a K-9 forensic program, has been asked to help in the investigation, along with his dog, Eddie. They are assisting the FBI, Georgia Bureau of Investigation and Walker County Sheriff's Department in narrowing leads.

"Hopefully we will find Theresa Parker," Mr. Grime said. "Hopefully we will find evidence. Hopefully all the information we claim will give us a line of inquiry and it just saves conducting 50 lines of inquiry."

Mrs. Parker has been missing since March 21. Her estranged husband, former LaFayette, Ga., police Officer Sam Parker, has been called a "person of interest" by the FBI.

FBI Agent John Parrish said dogs such as Eddie, a 7-year-old English springer spaniel, are used in "violent crime matters," such as the Parker case.

He also said search dogs assisted authorities in April and provided valuable help. The additional help marks a "new phase of the investigation," Agent Parrish said.

"We wanted to bring in Mr. Grime because he is renowned for his ability to do certain things," Mr. Parrish said. "We (will) go to areas that are of investigative interest to us and not only eliminate (leads, but) follow up on leads."

Mr. Grime said he and Eddie will help formulate a strategy and find evidence, but officials would not comment on when or where new searches will be conducted.

"He is a trained victim recovery dog," Mr. Grime said. "He is a wide-area screening asset that will locate human remains either in the whole or part or down to the cellular level."

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com/2007/09/international-investigator-k-9-dog-join.html

Parker, a former sergeant with the LaFayette Police Department, is being held without bond accused of murdering his wife Teresa. She seemingly vanished more than two years ago leaving behind a family and career with Walker County 911. There is no evidence she has died, a body was never found and investigators have not found a murder weapon.

We also saw video played in the courtroom to demonstrate how another dog, Eddie, found a sample pair of pants hidden in the Walker County Jail that was perfumed with a cadaver scent. Eddie is an English Springer Spaniel belonging to Martin Grime, a world-renown forensic K-9 expert based in the United Kingdom.

Grime testified he was paid $450 a day, plus travel and living expenses, by the FBI to search some areas in Walker County in connection with Teresa Parker's disappearance.

During a visit to Parker's home back in September 2007 Grime said he and Eddie sniffed around their garage.

"He immediately gave a positive bark response within the garage between a truck parked to the left of the entrance and a boat parked to the right," Grime said.

Grime added Eddie did not seem interested in the vehicles but in a scent that was wafting in the air, based on the way the dog held his nose upward. Grime said Eddie then "hit" on an abandoned house next door. Testimony shows that house was never repaired after a fire gutted the inside and killed a child several years ago.

September 23, 2010
LAFAYETTE, Ga. (CBS/AP) Teresa Parker's family and friends will finally be able to put the Georgia 911 dispatcher to rest after her skeletal remains were found scattered along the Chattanooga River, investigators said Wednesday - a sad and final ending that they have feared since Teresa mysteriously vanished in 2007.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/theresa-parkers-body-found-in-ga-911-dispatcher-went-missing-in-2007/

[Brietta]

The FBI considers them -- Martin Grime and his 7-year-old, English Springer Spaniel, Eddie -- two of the best in the law enforcement speciality of canine forensics, able to find evidence everyone else missed.

"A small amount of forensic evidence," for example, "may be under a board in a house, or under a large boulder, and things like that, where forensic evidence can't normally be recovered from. We'll use the dogs to try and locate it for us," Grime said.

Grime and Eddie are in high demand, world wide. Getting them to Walker County from England to help solve Theresa Parker's disappearance is an indication of how high a priority her case is for the FBI, according to one FBI agent close to the case.

Eddie is a veteran of more than 200 homicide cases, working with Grime, who has 30 years' of law enforcement and military experience in conducting criminal investigations.

http://archive.thv11.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=52985

14 September 2007
 Chattanooga Times/Free Press
Chloe Morrison

The investigation into the disappearance of Walker County 911 dispatcher Theresa Parker is a "high-priority" case, FBI agents said Thursday, and authorities unveiled tools to be used in the search.

Martin Grime, a 30-year veteran of military and civil police work in the United Kingdom and developer of a K-9 forensic program, has been asked to help in the investigation, along with his dog, Eddie. They are assisting the FBI, Georgia Bureau of Investigation and Walker County Sheriff's Department in narrowing leads.

"Hopefully we will find Theresa Parker," Mr. Grime said. "Hopefully we will find evidence. Hopefully all the information we claim will give us a line of inquiry and it just saves conducting 50 lines of inquiry."

Mrs. Parker has been missing since March 21. Her estranged husband, former LaFayette, Ga., police Officer Sam Parker, has been called a "person of interest" by the FBI.

FBI Agent John Parrish said dogs such as Eddie, a 7-year-old English springer spaniel, are used in "violent crime matters," such as the Parker case.

He also said search dogs assisted authorities in April and provided valuable help. The additional help marks a "new phase of the investigation," Agent Parrish said.

"We wanted to bring in Mr. Grime because he is renowned for his ability to do certain things," Mr. Parrish said. "We (will) go to areas that are of investigative interest to us and not only eliminate (leads, but) follow up on leads."

Mr. Grime said he and Eddie will help formulate a strategy and find evidence, but officials would not comment on when or where new searches will be conducted.

"He is a trained victim recovery dog," Mr. Grime said. "He is a wide-area screening asset that will locate human remains either in the whole or part or down to the cellular level."

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com/2007/09/international-investigator-k-9-dog-join.html

Parker, a former sergeant with the LaFayette Police Department, is being held without bond accused of murdering his wife Teresa. She seemingly vanished more than two years ago leaving behind a family and career with Walker County 911. There is no evidence she has died, a body was never found and investigators have not found a murder weapon.

We also saw video played in the courtroom to demonstrate how another dog, Eddie, found a sample pair of pants hidden in the Walker County Jail that was perfumed with a cadaver scent. Eddie is an English Springer Spaniel belonging to Martin Grime, a world-renown forensic K-9 expert based in the United Kingdom.

Grime testified he was paid $450 a day, plus travel and living expenses, by the FBI to search some areas in Walker County in connection with Teresa Parker's disappearance.

During a visit to Parker's home back in September 2007 Grime said he and Eddie sniffed around their garage.

"He immediately gave a positive bark response within the garage between a truck parked to the left of the entrance and a boat parked to the right," Grime said.

Grime added Eddie did not seem interested in the vehicles but in a scent that was wafting in the air, based on the way the dog held his nose upward. Grime said Eddie then "hit" on an abandoned house next door. Testimony shows that house was never repaired after a fire gutted the inside and killed a child several years ago.

September 23, 2010
LAFAYETTE, Ga. (CBS/AP) Teresa Parker's family and friends will finally be able to put the Georgia 911 dispatcher to rest after her skeletal remains were found scattered along the Chattanooga River, investigators said Wednesday - a sad and final ending that they have feared since Teresa mysteriously vanished in 2007.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/theresa-parkers-body-found-in-ga-911-dispatcher-went-missing-in-2007/

You seem to have overlooked the bit which confirms that Martin Grime had not at that time acted as an expert witness in the US.

**snip

During a visit to Parker's home back in September 2007 Grime said he and Eddie sniffed around their garage.

"He immediately gave a positive bark response within the garage between a truck parked to the left of the entrance and a boat parked to the right," Grime said.

Grime added Eddie did not seem interested in the vehicles but in a scent that was wafting in the air, based on the way the dog held his nose upward. Grime said Eddie then "hit" on an abandoned house next door. Testimony shows that house was never repaired after a fire gutted the inside and killed a child several years ago.

During lengthy cross-examination Grime said there is no evidence to show Eddie smelled anything incriminating against or linked to Mr. Parker. Like Higgins, Grime said cadaver dogs can only prove useful when there is other evidence that corroborates the dog's "hits."

The FBI has a keen interest in the outcome of this case. If Parker is convicted the case could pave the legal way for future prosecutions where there is no evidence other than dog "hits" in connection with a person accused of murder.

Toward the end of the day Judge Wood learned that while Grime has international acclaim he has never testified as an expert witness in the United States.

http://www.scentevidence.com/2009/07/dog-debate-at-center-of-murder-case.html