Search areas: who searched where, when and how

[ShiningInLuz]

Let me see if I can summarise the key searches.

The Tapas 9 had a first search around apartment 5A in the minutes after Kate alerted.  I don't know what radius was searched, exactly who searched, how it was conducted or precisely how long.

The Mark Warner or Ocean Club 'structured' search kicked in.  Apart from knowing it was 'structured', which means folks got a document saying where to search, went and searched, returned, and got another pamphlet, I know little about how this went.  I don't know which areas were searched, by whom, when, or exactly how they conducted that search.

The GNR turned up on the night.  Again, the details of the search are vague.  Officers exploring 'perimeters', though perimeter of what is vague.  Dogs deployed, vague.  Cars patrolling, vague.

Kate and Gerry searched, in the early hours of 4 May.  I haven't got a clue where, except it was quiet.

The good citizens of Luz searched extensively.  But I don't know where they searched, whether they were looking for a woke-and-wandered child or a victim, or how methodical the search was.  Or how long it lasted.  (Note - in the SY search of mid-2014, most citizens of Luz said the mound had already been searched extensively.  At least one commentator was sure it had not.)

The GNR extended the search radius over the following week to, I believe, about 15km.  I know more about the assets they deployed than about how they searched.  I have no idea, for example, whether or not the abandoned wells in this area were inspected.

When the media firestorm kicked in, people came from far and wide to search.  There were people in the local drains, people on the golf course, people with visions, and some of these resulted in further searching, but who did what when?

Then Mark Harrison arrived, and gave his assessment of where to look for a dead body assuming one was in the locality.  I will not claim to know even the bare bones of that one.

The only search I 'know' that I am confident about is the mid-2014 SY search of Luz.  The area that I call the mound was sealed off by the GNR and SY did a search that included using ground penetrating radar and sniffer dogs.  Then they did a brief check on two areas to the east of Luz, just outside the town.

If you can add information, comments or thoughts to improve this lot, please do so

The search of McCann and Tapas 9 properties/vehicles are covered elsewhere.  Please do not raise them here.

The search of Murat and associates properties/vehicles are covered elsewhere.  Please do not raise them in this thread.

 

48

[Wonderfulspam]

Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?

(It's not difficult to work out where he went)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3629.0

[Eleanor]

Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?

(It's not difficult to work out where he went)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3629.0

Good Morning.  This is a New Thread.  Don't even think about going Off Topic.  Thank You.

[John]

Let me see if I can summarise the key searches.

The Tapas 9 had a first search around apartment 5A in the minutes after Kate alerted.  I don't know what radius was searched, exactly who searched, how it was conducted or precisely how long.

The Mark Warner or Ocean Club 'structured' search kicked in.  Apart from knowing it was 'structured', which means folks got a document saying where to search, went and searched, returned, and got another pamphlet, I know little about how this went.  I don't know which areas were searched, by whom, when, or exactly how they conducted that search.

The GNR turned up on the night.  Again, the details of the search are vague.  Officers exploring 'perimeters', though perimeter of what is vague.  Dogs deployed, vague.  Cars patrolling, vague.

Kate and Gerry searched, in the early hours of 4 May.  I haven't got a clue where, except it was quiet.

The good citizens of Luz searched extensively.  But I don't know where they searched, whether they were looking for a woke-and-wandered child or a victim, or how methodical the search was.  Or how long it lasted.  (Note - in the SY search of mid-2014, most citizens of Luz said the mound had already been searched extensively.  At least one commentator was sure it had not.)

The GNR extended the search radius over the following week to, I believe, about 15km.  I know more about the assets they deployed than about how they searched.  I have no idea, for example, whether or not the abandoned wells in this area were inspected.

When the media firestorm kicked in, people came from far and wide to search.  There were people in the local drains, people on the golf course, people with visions, and some of these resulted in further searching, but who did what when?

Then Mark Harrison arrived, and gave his assessment of where to look for a dead body assuming one was in the locality.  I will not claim to know even the bare bones of that one.

The only search I 'know' that I am confident about is the mid-2014 SY search of Luz.  The area that I call the mound was sealed off by the GNR and SY did a search that included using ground penetrating radar and sniffer dogs.  Then they did a brief check on two areas to the east of Luz, just outside the town.

If you can add information, comments or thoughts to improve this lot, please do so

The search of McCann and Tapas 9 properties/vehicles are covered elsewhere.  Please do not raise them here.

The search of Murat and associates properties/vehicles are covered elsewhere.  Please do not raise them in this thread.

 

This is a really interesting topic so thank you for raising this new thread.  This subject has been touched on in passing in several threads in the past but I don't think any attempt has ever been made to bring it under a single heading.

As you have pointed out in your intro, there appears to have been a cursory search of the holiday apartment and the immediate vicinity following the discovery that Madeleine was missing.  Despite claims that Kate was supposed to have yelled, "Gerry...they've taken her..." or similar words to that effect, this search would appear to have been hopeful of finding a live child who had somehow got out on her own and got lost in the darkness.

When the Mark Warner search procedure eventually kicked in some twenty minutes after the alert, this again was targeted at finding a missing child who had wandered away from the safety of her apartment.  I have yet to find any indications that even in this golden hour that searchers were looking for an abductor.  This seems to have come later following the GNR officers' initial interview with the parents.



A previous discussion...So what actual searching was there?

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5348.msg189607#msg189607

[G-Unit]

That's a good point John. Mark Warner were searching for a child who had wandered off, so no-one convinced them initially that an abduction had occurred. David Payne searched despite his and the McCanns conviction that it wasn't a case of wandering. He searched around before returning to the apartment and staying there;

I was asking about the gates being shut at that back and she said well both gates you know were shut, so in my mind, you know, that had ruled it out that Madeleine had err had wandered off..... sleepy children you know don't put, shut the doors you know behind them and child gates, you know, so, so that was my initial thoughts

Err and then we just, you know then we went to do the sweeps around the place... I had the sweep around the swimming pool where the, err the kiddies pool is, I went to, I just had a quick look at the tennis courts and just basically swept around the, the area....we spoke, me, Matt and Russell, right come on we've got to have a bit more structure to this, err you know, I'll, I'll you know so he went off down to the Police Station and you know, you know we waited as I say for the Police to arrive and we, our, I think it was in between them arriving or when they arrived that I then went down and did that sweep of you know, right down past the Supermarket err going slightly to the side and then onto the front past where the church is at the bottom. I looked, you know I say I looked in all the rocks and you know just went along the whole beach shouting out and identifying people....so more likely I'd have probably been with Gerry going through the options of what happened, or you know where could she be and what, what's gone on here. Err you know trying to work out err what had actually happened err so I, I, you know we all went up to the apartment pretty much together. I think, I don't know what, whether the other people came in or not, I can only remember me, Fiona, Kate and Gerry predominantly and the err lady from Mark Warner err who were the main people who were in the apartment.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Eleanor]

It is quite normal for people other than Kate and Gerry to first think that Madeleine had  just wandered off.  Silly not to, so it had to be done.

I might have wondered what the point was of this Thread, but so much more is coming out, now that some of us are actually, seriously looking at it all.

[John]

Even if a thousand searchers searched for a thousand days in and around Luz, the terrain is such that hidden remains would in all likelihood remain hidden.

[G-Unit]

Matthew Oldfield says;

Dave and Russell were just running off sort of shouting, so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police, so I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, which his back to the, to the main reception essentially, so I went down that route looking for her at that time and I asked the reception to phone the Police, and that must have been about five past...I volunteered to go up to the, erm, I went up to the Millennium Restaurant...let them know that a little girl was missing and then gone back through the back streets, down on the beach and then back to the apartment.

He then did more running around, returned to Reception with Gerald at 11pm, then more running around later.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

[G-Unit]

So far I have found no evidence of Gerald McCann being out and about searching with the other men. At some point Dianne Webster left the tapas restaurant and went to G5A. In her first interview she says only Kate was there. In her second interview she says both the McCanns were there.

The question being asked about the people that were inside the apartment of McCANN at that time, the witness said that the McCANN couple were present (although on the first occasion she had no recollection of having seen GERRY), and FIONA, not remembering any other people that were there.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

[pathfinder73]

They searched Rocha Negra beach. They should have checked the rocks area from the church properly. That's an obvious hiding place in the dark not the sandy beach. SY should be doing it now with those pesky dogs.

Letter regarding inspection sites 2007.07.01
Canine Inspection Report
Date * Time 1 August 2007 20h00
Place Praia da Luz * Lagos
Participants: three PJ officers; two UK police experts; one Scotland Yard police officer; Eddy, the
English Springer [Spaniel]; two GNR police officers
Today, after assessment of the area surrounding the tourist resort named "Ocean Club" in Praia da
Luz, in which [assessment] were considered matters of toponomy, soil characteristics and distance
from the apartment from where the minor Madeleine McCann disappeared, an inspection was
done with the canine unit specialised in the detection of cadaver odour, in Praia da Luz, in the area
from the start of the rock formation contiguous [immediately next] to the beach and commonly
called "talefe" up to the area called "Rocha Negra" [Black Rock] that is characterised by the
existence of a volcanic chimney [vent].
1. Thus, at 20h05, the stretch of sand, rock and rocky cavities [hollows] in the terrain was
examined, nothing abnormal having been detected. The inspection happened in an area located to
the left, when facing the sea, of the sandy beach of Luz, from the Millenium Restaurant
The entire stretch of ground was examined, nothing abnormal was detected and so the work
concluded at 21h00.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DOGS_INSPECTION.htm

[Brietta]

In the search for Mikaeel Kular the Police Scotland made a public appeal for volunteers and organised and controlled all aspects of the search.

Volunteers had to register their name and details and were briefed and advised on the best areas to search.

They were also advised on the type of clothing to be worn taking into consideration the prevailing weather conditions and terrain. The volunteers were advised on health and safety and suitable jackets and footwear were available for anyone who needed them. 

A systematic search was ensured by Police Scotland advisers who coordinated areas to be searched and who kept a record of which areas had been searched.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/mikaeel-kular-missing-recap-huge-3030802

There is a stark contrast with the searches organised to look for Madeleine McCann where that level of organisation appears to have been lacking.



Peter Neal Patterson

I met Kate and Gerry on Friday after having made contact with them via written messages during the week.

They knew I was participating in the searches that week.

I felt dispirited because there appeared to be no coordination or leadership to the searches.

Many people went searching without adequate local equipment, like for example people were cutting their feet on the rough terrain or on the shrubs in those locales.
Many people wore sandal and walked over tough land.

I never saw any police involvement in the operations carried out by civilians. 

On Friday the 11th of May 2007 we heard rumours that the Portuguese were going to stop the searches.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PE-PA.htm

[G-Unit]

Mark Harrison reviewed the initial searches carried out in the first 7 days;

GNR Searches Conducted within 7 days of Madeleine McCann's Disappearance.
On Saturday 21.07.2007 I met with Major Luis Seqeuira, GNR Portimao who was the search coordinator for all search activity that was under taken in the physical search for Madeleine McCann..... The teams available and deployed by Major Seqeuira were drawn from unit of the GNR, Civil Protection, Fire Brigade, Red Cross and Urban Police. Each team numbered around 10 and between 80 to 100 personnel were involved in search activity.

The search was split into 3 zones radiating out from Praia Da Luz in a northward direction. The first zone extended 3km to the EN125 road at Espiche. W?hin this zone, sectors were drawn using the natural boundaries that exist and included the entire village. Officers were briefed and debriefed before and after deployments and records of activity collected. Each sector was repeatedly searched on 3 separate occasions over the 7 days using officers conducting line searches and supported by air scenting dogs.

The next Zone 2 was extended out to a radius of 7km to the boundary of the N120 road at Bensafrim. As the sectors were larger and in order to support the line searches 2 GNR officers on motorcycles and 6 GNR officers on horse-back were deployed. These sectors were all searched on 2 separate occasions over the 7 day period.
The outer zone 3 was extended to 15km at Barragem de Odiaxere a dammed lake. This zone is in a mountainous region subject to flash forest fires.
Therefore Fire officers who routinely patrol and have local knowledge of the area were tasked to drive the tracks, visit empty properties to look for the missing girl. Additionally the fire brigade used a boat to visually inspect the surface water of the lake.

[Alice Purjorick]

Mark Harrison reviewed the initial searches carried out in the first 7 days;

GNR Searches Conducted within 7 days of Madeleine McCann's Disappearance.
On Saturday 21.07.2007 I met with Major Luis Seqeuira, GNR Portimao who was the search coordinator for all search activity that was under taken in the physical search for Madeleine McCann..... The teams available and deployed by Major Seqeuira were drawn from unit of the GNR, Civil Protection, Fire Brigade, Red Cross and Urban Police. Each team numbered around 10 and between 80 to 100 personnel were involved in search activity.

The search was split into 3 zones radiating out from Praia Da Luz in a northward direction. The first zone extended 3km to the EN125 road at Espiche. W?hin this zone, sectors were drawn using the natural boundaries that exist and included the entire village. Officers were briefed and debriefed before and after deployments and records of activity collected. Each sector was repeatedly searched on 3 separate occasions over the 7 days using officers conducting line searches and supported by air scenting dogs.

The next Zone 2 was extended out to a radius of 7km to the boundary of the N120 road at Bensafrim. As the sectors were larger and in order to support the line searches 2 GNR officers on motorcycles and 6 GNR officers on horse-back were deployed. These sectors were all searched on 2 separate occasions over the 7 day period.
The outer zone 3 was extended to 15km at Barragem de Odiaxere a dammed lake. This zone is in a mountainous region subject to flash forest fires.
Therefore Fire officers who routinely patrol and have local knowledge of the area were tasked to drive the tracks, visit empty properties to look for the missing girl. Additionally the fire brigade used a boat to visually inspect the surface water of the lake.

That just cannot be correct. There is an abundance of opinion that no one searched/the search was not coordinated/it was haphazard/it was incompetent.
I know I read it on here posted by the "experts"
 

[G-Unit]

That just cannot be correct. There is an abundance of opinion that no one searched/the search was not coordinated/it was haphazard/it was incompetent.
I know I read it on here posted by the "experts"

Well Mark Harrison thought they searched;   

The sea in general circumstances would be immediately attractive to an offender as an easy way of body disposal and so must be considered.
The searches of the coastline was conducted by the Maritime Police and Coastguard. They searched the sea for any body buoyant on the surface and checked the coves and caves.

This report has highlighted the extensive and professional efforts made by the Portuguese authorities regarding the search to locate Madeleine McCann alive.

On his recommendations they searched again in August (I think);

The search process was then initiated and continued over the following eight days. Throughout and at all locations I acted as an observer and search adviser. The PJ appointed a Chief Inspector as a search manager who was present throughout. Additionally, separate PJ officers were appointed to record and map each search location and provide a contemporaneous video commentary of all search activity undertaken. This system of management and recording was based on my reports recommendation to ensure record accuracy, transparency and facilitate any future clarification of any search activity undertaken. It was also essential that the official management and recording of the search was conducted by the Portuguese Police themselves rather than by British officers without any powers and not conversant with Portuguese law and judicial processes.
 
The search process used personnel to physically, intrusively and invasively explore all areas of disturbance, voids and concealment within the areas searched. The search utilised dogs trained to locate human remains and human blood, ground penetrating radar to detect sub surface disturbance and concealment, clearance teams to remove concealing vegetation, endoscopes to search drains and voids and metal probes to search the ground. These teams were supported by experts in Forensic Anthropology for human bone identification and a professor in geophysics.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

[Miss Taken Identity]

It is quite normal for people other than Kate and Gerry to first think that Madeleine had  just wandered off.  Silly not to, so it had to be done.

I might have wondered what the point was of this Thread, but so much more is coming out, now that some of us are actually, seriously looking at it all.

Indeed. However, why didn't Kate and Gerry not scream OUR DAUGHTERS BEEN ABDUCTED PLEASE PLEASE HELP US!..hmm well Kate was convinced immediately  so she claims. So if you KNOW your daughter has been abducted why run to the tapas bar and announce, why not talk loudly and ask for assistance demand someone call the police there and then! ( Sadie claims they could check on the children because they could see the apartment, it was only 50 mtrs away), AND so Kate leaves two other children alone,AGAIN, while she ran off for help. No one shouted abduction , the abduction theory came later!( to cover the unlocked apartment)... Kate calls the family and mentions; whooshing curtains and jemmied shutters implying an abductor BROKE IN and stole Maddie.

That is why people were looking for a wandered child! AND it occurred to the parents in all this, what would people think about them and what they did, So a story was born...deflection was the name of the game, that is what it became - a game! IMO.