The parents of a missing child don't matter.

[Brietta]

A load to be fair. It's kept the issue in the limelight. Rather like having to step into the fire again and again to find their child. If it wasn't for Mr Grimes dogs I think the suspicion would have died down a long time ago. That is largely what fuels suspicion and I admit mine too when I read about this case. It is the only indication they may have been involved and frankly that is not enough to warrant this level of finger pointing. A moment of clarity for me when reading about this case was during an interview with Kate when she said something like if people really want to see the truth it is there, they just don't want to see it. The fact is there is no evidence to implicate them. If they are innocent we should give them as much support as possible. The fact there is a huge investigation on going and not for other missing children is because in this big bad world if you work hard enough and try hard enough good stuff happens.

Misinterpretation of the dogs' work certainly partly led to the arguido status which had such a devastating effect on the public perception.

Dogs work cases all the time, sometimes with success, sometimes without.  The public are never privy to any of the work being carried out by the teams except from a distance.
What happened in Madeleine's case is a perfect illustration of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Even in Madeleine McCann's case public interest had begun to flag leading to a drop off in donations to the Madeleine Fund which necessitated active steps to be taken to raise money in the form of writing a best seller.
So yet again the parents' drive achieved the impossible of raising money to keep the search going and ultimately to have Madeleine's case reviewed and re-opened.  How many people have that amount of expertise or energy to mimic what the McCanns have done? ... and their much criticised involvement with the Missing People charity must have benefited from it.

Why Madeleine's parents should be vilified for keeping her case alive against all the odds is beyond my comprehension.

[Admin]

As the McCanns have not been arrested or charged then they have more than a legal right to be considered innocent

Absolutely, innocent in relation to a missing child investigation in terms of both Portuguese and English law.

Please keep this discussion general and not specific to the McCann case.

[ferryman]

Misinterpretation of the dogs' work certainly partly led to the arguido status which had such a devastating effect on the public perception.

Dogs work cases all the time, sometimes with success, sometimes without.  The public are never privy to any of the work being carried out by the teams except from a distance.
What happened in Madeleine's case is a perfect illustration of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Even in Madeleine McCann's case public interest had begun to flag leading to a drop off in donations to the Madeleine Fund which necessitated active steps to be taken to raise money in the form of writing a best seller.
So yet again the parents' drive achieved the impossible of raising money to keep the search going and ultimately to have Madeleine's case reviewed and re-opened.  How many people have that amount of expertise or energy to mimic what the McCanns have done? ... and their much criticised involvement with the Missing People charity must have benefited from it.

Why Madeleine's parents should be vilified for keeping her case alive against all the odds is beyond my comprehension.

Good post!

[Lyall]

Misinterpretation of the dogs' work certainly partly led to the arguido status which had such a devastating effect on the public perception.

Dogs work cases all the time, sometimes with success, sometimes without.  The public are never privy to any of the work being carried out by the teams except from a distance.
What happened in Madeleine's case is a perfect illustration of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Even in Madeleine McCann's case public interest had begun to flag leading to a drop off in donations to the Madeleine Fund which necessitated active steps to be taken to raise money in the form of writing a best seller.
So yet again the parents' drive achieved the impossible of raising money to keep the search going and ultimately to have Madeleine's case reviewed and re-opened.  How many people have that amount of expertise or energy to mimic what the McCanns have done? ... and their much criticised involvement with the Missing People charity must have benefited from it.

Why Madeleine's parents should be vilified for keeping her case alive against all the odds is beyond my comprehension.

Did they ask for a review in 2008, Brietta?

[Miss Taken Identity]

                                "I answered that!"   %£&)**#  Indeed you did.

Correct me if I'm wrong ... you seem to be of the opinion there are two classes of crime victims ... the deserving and the undeserving.  Are you of the opinion the parents of a missing child come into the latter category?


May I respectfully remind you that personal mud slinging adds nothing to the debate, should what we post be considered debate and if you find my posting style annoying ~ I won't be offended if you ignore ~ I find it useful to do that on occasion.

Your posting style is not annnoying- just nasty/trolling accusatory behaviour.

I have NOT expressed an opinion on either. The fact that you feel you 'know' my opinion is a bit arrogant. You only 'think' you know because it is what you want it to be.

 I was responding to the thread. I was just throwing questions out there for discussion. I have never wrongly accused the McCANNS OF ANYTHING So Keep a lid on your accusations!

Thank you.

******************************************************************************************


*I just wonder if ADMIN will remove the allegations Brietta made against me without evidence!*
And will the *trolling* be DEALT WITH?

[Brietta]

Did they ask for a review in 2008, Brietta?

How long do you think it took to get the files properly translated and then to go through them?

[Lyall]

How long do you think it took to get the files properly translated and then to go through them?

That's a fair point about their own efforts, but British police would have done that themselves.

It's OT in this thread but you keep stating, in many posts and threads, that they did everything they could. But history actually shows they were urged to request a review in 2008, and they did not.

[John]

This is an intriguing subject, but do we have empathy for the parents who kill?

[ferryman]

That's a fair point about their own efforts, but British police would have done that themselves.

It's OT in this thread but you keep stating, in many posts and threads, that they did everything they could. But history actually shows they were urged to request a review in 2008, and they did not.

No,  I don't think that's right.  The shelved investigation was concluded in August 2008 when it was considered that all possible avenues of investigation had been exhausted by the joint Portuguese/Anglo investigation. 

It was always made plain that new information or evidence was needed to re-open the investigation and, at that juncture (early August, 2008) that just didn't exist.

So there just wasn't any prospect of the Portuguese officials re-opening the case.

[Lyall]

No,  I don't think that's right.  The shelved investigation was concluded in August 2008 when it was considered that all possible avenues of investigation had been exhausted by the joint Portuguese/Anglo investigation. 

It was always made plain that new information or evidence was needed to re-open the investigation and, at that juncture (early August, 2008) that just didn't exist.

So there just wasn't any prospect of the Portuguese officials re-opening the case.

No, my point is about the British police. A petition was launched requesting a Met review in late 2010, but why wasn't it done in 2008?

[G-Unit]

This is an intriguing subject, but do we have empathy for the parents who kill?

That's a very interesting question John. Parents kill for many reasons, don't they? We can understand how it may happen in certain circumstances. Some parents want to die and think it's better for the children to take them also. Others just lose their tempers and lash out with no intention to kill. Some parents get into a cycle of 'scapegoating' one child, and their lack of empathy leads to cruelty which ends in the death of the child.

empathy = the capacity to understand what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference, i.e., the capacity to place oneself in another's shoes.

[John]

That's a very interesting question John. Parents kill for many reasons, don't they? We can understand how it may happen in certain circumstances. Some parents want to die and think it's better for the children to take them also. Others just lose their tempers and lash out with no intention to kill. Some parents get into a cycle of 'scapegoating' one child, and their lack of empathy leads to cruelty which ends in the death of the child.

empathy = the capacity to understand what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference, i.e., the capacity to place oneself in another's shoes.

I have met many men convicted of murderer and what surprised me the most but not in every case was the regret.  Regret that things had escalated to the point where someone died. These were not psychopaths or men with mental illnesses but just ordinary Joe Bloggs from the street. I spent a lot of time talking with them and yes, I certainly have sympathy with them the fate which awaited them.

[G-Unit]

I have met many men convicted of murderer and what surprised me the most but not in every case was the regret.  Regret that things had escalated to the point where someone died. These were not psychopaths or men with mental illnesses but just ordinary Joe Bloggs from the street. I spent a lot of time talking with them and yes, I certainly have sympathy with them the fate which awaited them.

Yes, not all murderers are so different from anyone else. There's a huge range of people and circumstances involved, so really it depends on the circumstances whether it's possible to empathise or sympathise, I think. By the way, not all psychopaths are criminals, you know, just some of them. Others are hugely successful people because psychopathic traits are very useful in business.

[ShiningInLuz]

Really? 0 on the empathy scale? Just a glib remark?

There's a set of tests on the BBC dating back maybe 15 years, designed to show the brain differences between men and women.

One was an empathy test, with scores in the range 0-20.

It was a long time ago, so please allow for memory errors on my part.

The average scores for men and for women were surprisingly close, indicating that empathy is not a good way to differentiate men and women.  I believe the average was 12 for men and 14 for women.

I scored a 2.

Folks who know me in real life know that if they want help/experience/problem resolution, I'm great at that.  But if they want empathy they go elsewhere.

[Brietta]

That's a fair point about their own efforts, but British police would have done that themselves.

It's OT in this thread but you keep stating, in many posts and threads, that they did everything they could. But history actually shows they were urged to request a review in 2008, and they did not.

I don't think your post is OT as you mention yet another infamous criticism of the parents of a missing child. 

Without going seriously into dates for the shelving of Madeleine's case, dates for the release of the files and time scales for finding grounds for and submitting such a request ... I think mention of a review in 2008 just did not happen and became common currency because of parental continuing efforts on their daughter's behalf being an irritation.
Bear in mind the case was archived because of a lack of evidence ... we have been repeatedly told it would be reopened only when new evidence would be found which allowed it.

(a)  who urged them to ask for a review? 
(b)  what grounds would they have used for a review?

Operation Grange undertook a review of the evidence in 2011, including that which had been submitted since the archiving.  It was deemed necessary to have a working review involving many of the Met's resources and personnel as well as the co-operation of the Portuguese who remain the lead authority.

What parents would have the resources to do that, and perhaps more importantly why should parents be expected to? 

The fact remains that grounds were found justify the re-opening of the case.  So what was it that drove the campaigns against, in which every device in the book was used to prevent the only type of investigation likely ever to uncover what happened to Madeleine McCann?

I think it shows that in this case the parents of a missing child do matter greatly in getting the case investigated properly ~ which makes the constant criticism of their every action by those who pay lip service to slogans such as 'justice' and 'truth for Maddy' all the more incomprehensible.