Did Jeremy Bamber use chloroform to subdue Sheila?

[John]

One of the mysteries in the White House murders case is how Jeremy Bamber managed to keep his sister under control while he carried out the first four murders.

Having looked at this again there is every possibility that he used something like chloroform to subdue her.

Even today, chloroform is difficult to detect and disperses quickly.

Views please?

39

[Myster]

A bit too sophisticated for JB, I think... and he never said anything about Chloroform to Julie. As she lived at Head Street and cleaned for him, rifling through his medicine cabinet and cupboards she might have discovered a mysterious bottle and asked him what it was.

The photo of Sheila always struck me as if she'd fainted.  She looks unconscious with eyes shut.

[Holly Goodhead]

One of the mysteries in the White House murders case is how Jeremy Bamber managed to keep his sister under control while he carried out the first four murders.

Having looked at this again there is every possibility that he used something like chloroform to subdue her.

Even today, chloroform is difficult to detect and disperses quickly.

Views please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroform#Anesthetic

Criminal use

Chloroform has been reputed to be used by criminals to knock out, daze or even murder their victims. Joseph Harris was charged in 1894 with using chloroform to rob people.[21] In 1901, chloroform was also implicated in the murder of the American businessman William Marsh Rice, the namesake of the institution now known as Rice University. Chloroform was also deemed to be a factor in the alleged murder of a woman in 1991 when she was asphyxiated while sleeping.[22] In a 2007 plea bargain a man confessed to using stun guns and chloroform to sexually assault minors.[23]Use of chloroform as an incapacitating agent has become widely recognized, bordering on clichéd, due to the popularity of crime fiction authors having criminals use chloroform-soaked rags to render victims unconscious. However, it is nearly impossible to incapacitate someone using chloroform.[24] It takes at least five minutes of inhaling an item soaked in chloroform to render a person unconscious. Most criminal cases involving chloroform also involve another drug being co-administered, such as alcohol or diazepam, or the victim being found to have been complicit in its administration. After a person has lost consciousness due to chloroform inhalation, a continuous volume must be administered and the chin must be supported in order to keep the tongue from obstructing the airway, a difficult procedure even for an anesthesiologist. In 1865 as a direct result of the criminal reputation chloroform had gained, medical journal The Lancet offered a "permanent scientific reputation" to anyone who could demonstrate "instantaneous insensibility" using chloroform,[25] and as of 2015 no such demonstration has been forthcoming.[24]

[John]

A bit too sophisticated for JB, I think... and he never said anything about Chloroform to Julie. As she lived at Head Street and cleaned for him, rifling through his medicine cabinet and cupboards she might have discovered a mysterious bottle and asked him what it was.

The photo of Sheila always struck me as if she'd fainted.  She looks unconscious with eyes shut.

Yes, totally unconcerned.  If she was in imminent danger surely she would have fought him off?

[Myster]

Yes, totally unconcerned.  If she was in imminent danger surely she would have fought him off?

Another thing too... had JB used chloroform and Sheila was out cold, I doubt that he would have made such a pig's ear of the first shot which was fired in the wrong direction for a suicide attempt. Whereas, having a rifle pointed at your neck by someone while conscious and sitting upright is enough to make you faint from the shock.

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes, totally unconcerned.  If she was in imminent danger surely she would have fought him off?

According to RB SC was like a lamb to the slaughter:

Excerpt from RB's diary on 11th August 1985:

"Wake up Sheila, Mummy wants you to say prayers with her, bring your bible, give me your arm, I'll help you".  When in their mother's bedroom, "lie down here darling, put the bible on your chest" the bible is placed on her chest, "give me your hand Sheila darling".  The gun has been rested on the bible, the hands are taken, the left hand is placed on the end of the barrell under the chin as the right hand is placed on the trigger guard and the thumb pressed onto the triger.  bang - Sheila has committed suicide!!"

DB describes SC on the vid as "pleasantly senile" so I guess this is how they viewed SC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=17m15s

[Myster]

DB describes SC on the vid as "pleasantly senile" so I guess this is how they viewed SC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=17m15s

Big mistake that. 

[Myster]

... showing you the video timing workaround, I mean 

[Holly Goodhead]

... showing you the video timing workaround, I mean 

Yes Dear quite a powerful tool!  Thank you x

I was just thinking about an idea of how YouTube links could be incorporated into books  &%+((£
Also web pages  &%+((£. It would probably be quite easy to do with ebooks but I'll have to think how it could be done with hard copies.  Sex it all up from your usual text and photos.  Plus people learn in different ways some more from reading others more from listening.

[Myster]

Yes Dear quite a powerful tool!  Thank you x

I was just thinking about an idea of how YouTube links could be incorporated into books  &%+((£
Also web pages  &%+((£ . It would probably be quite easy to do with ebooks but I'll have to think how it could be done with hard copies.  Sex it all up from your usual text and photos.  Plus people learn in different ways some more from reading others more from listening.

That's the way to do it, as Myster Punch said...

https://youtu.be/qh4U9kan8uM?t=0s

http://www.riumplus.com/mystbook/

[Holly Goodhead]

That's the way to do it, as Myster Punch said...

https://youtu.be/qh4U9kan8uM?t=0s

http://www.riumplus.com/mystbook/

My idea is already at the embryonic stage 

I don't feel any nostalgia/sentiment towards paper books.  If everything could be held and stored digitally it would be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.  I don't get this 'I like the way it feels and smells' argument  &%+((£. If books persist in paper then perhaps a little device could be developed that scans web links from book pages and allows users to upload the scanned info from the device into a search engine that could refer to diagrams, graphs, music, YouTube clips etc, etc.  It could easily be done with ebooks.  This would attract more people to read and cover all styles of absorbing info/learning:

http://learning-styles-online.com/overview/


 

[Myster]

My idea is already at the embryonic stage 

I don't feel any nostalgia/sentiment towards paper books. If everything could be held and stored digitally it would be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.  I don't get this 'I like the way it feels and smells' argument  &%+((£ . If books persist in paper then perhaps a little device could be developed that scans web links from book pages and allows users to upload the scanned info from the device into a search engine that could refer to diagrams, graphs, music, YouTube clips etc, etc.  It could easily be done with ebooks.  This would attract more people to read and cover all styles of absorbing info/learning:

http://learning-styles-online.com/overview/

You might not Holly but other people do, including myself, although I'm not averse to reading epubs and pdfs on a PC or laptop as well... but real textbooks aren't lost should your hard disk die suddenly. And I prefer the sensuous feel of a worn old “Lady Chatterley” in my hands to a cold plastic kindle with “50 Sheds of Grey”.

There's probably an app already out there (or shortly will be) which uses a special reader or camera phone to scan a text link or barcode URL of any website directly from the pages of a textbook.

I thought this was already possible with e-books though, simply by clicking/touching a hyperlink?  I use Calibre, a free program for reading pdfs, epubs, etc. If you click on a website link in any e-book being read, the site is then displayed on screen. For example, if I clicked on the blue Autodesk hyperlink in the attached screenshot of Calibre viewer, it would take me directly there.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[puglove]

My idea is already at the embryonic stage 

I don't feel any nostalgia/sentiment towards paper books.  If everything could be held and stored digitally it would be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.  I don't get this 'I like the way it feels and smells' argument  &%+((£. If books persist in paper then perhaps a little device could be developed that scans web links from book pages and allows users to upload the scanned info from the device into a search engine that could refer to diagrams, graphs, music, YouTube clips etc, etc.  It could easily be done with ebooks.  This would attract more people to read and cover all styles of absorbing info/learning:

http://learning-styles-online.com/overview/


 

That's a shame, Holl, the fact that books don't do it for you. Perfect bliss for me is sitting under a tree with Monica Dickens, I just don't think it would be the same on a computer. Then again, I'm not on facespace or twitter, I don't even have a mobile anymore, I just do this when the devil's in me!!

But I'm looking forward to your reviews on the latest Bamber books when/if they appear. They will be beautifully written, and they'll save me the dosh I can spend on fags and pony nuts.    xxx

[puglove]

That's a shame, Holl, the fact that books don't do it for you. Perfect bliss for me is sitting under a tree with Monica Dickens, I just don't think it would be the same on a computer. Then again, I'm not on facespace or twitter, I don't even have a mobile anymore, I just do this when the devil's in me!!

But I'm looking forward to your reviews on the latest Bamber books when/if they appear. They will be beautifully written, and they'll save me the dosh I can spend on fags and pony nuts.    xxx

Edited to add....your reviews will be beautifully written, not the sad old piles of tosh that will probably plagiarise my realisation that Sheila never moved after the first shot.

[puglove]

One of the mysteries in the White House murders case is how Jeremy Bamber managed to keep his sister under control while he carried out the first four murders.

Having looked at this again there is every possibility that he used something like chloroform to subdue her.

Even today, chloroform is difficult to detect and disperses quickly.

Views please?

This is what bugs me...this image of Sheila as some sort of super-human wonder woman who would have fought to the death to save her boys. She was dragged from her bed, completely confused, tired and over-medicated, with no realisation of what was going on until she saw June. She was probably literally petrified. She probably passed out. She was more scared than she could cope with. She was 25, and suddenly the world had gone mad.

And the best that Jeremy Bamber could come up with was "no comment."