The child gate located at the top of the steps.

[misty]

You really should read the previous posts before commenting. Otherwise you're comments are meaningless because you don't know what you're commenting on.

I understood the post in its context.

[G-Unit]

I understood the post in its context.

Really? What time did Madeleine leave the apartment then?

[misty]

Really? What time did Madeleine leave the apartment then?

Sometime between the times you quoted. Or not, depending on what myth you believe.
How long does the average abduction take?

[G-Unit]

Sometime between the times you quoted. Or not, depending on what myth you believe.
How long does the average abduction take?

I was replying to Brietta. i believe she still favours Tannerman for the abduction, in which case it would be 9.15pm-9.20pm. It was quite some time after that when people were searching.

If we are talking woke and wandered she must have moved fast, there was only 5 minutes between each check. (That answers your question about abduction also)

[misty]

I was replying to Brietta. i believe she still favours Tannerman for the abduction, in which case it would be 9.15pm-9.20pm. It was quite some time after that when people were searching.

If we are talking woke and wandered she must have moved fast, there was only 5 minutes between each check. (That answers your question about abduction also)

Crossed wires. You inserted Ferryman's post into the post I replied to.

[G-Unit]

Crossed wires. You inserted Ferryman's post into the post I replied to.

So I did, sorry, i didn't notice you'd joined in.

[pegasus]

(snip)... it appeared to the witnesses that someone had left. And that person's shoes and coat were still there. So one of the possible explanations is, that person left in a hurry. The stairgate could be easily opened, unless it was locked.

I cant believe this could be a possibility. It would be pretty daft to exit the patio doors carrying a child and descend the stairs at the risk of being seen or walking straight into one of the child checkers, at the bottom ...(snip)

The evidence that a child may have left the apartment alone in a hurry is:   1. the child was reported to be no longer in the apartment, 2. the shoes and coat were still there (indicating hurry). I am talking about a child leaving the apartment alone and getting past the stairgate alone (no abductor present). A child walking through the stairgate is not tall enough to be seen from the restaurant.

[Brietta]

The evidence that a child may have left the apartment alone in a hurry is:   1. the child was reported to be no longer in the apartment, 2. the shoes and coat were still there (indicating hurry). I am talking about a child leaving the apartment alone and getting past the stairgate alone (no abductor present). A child walking through the stairgate is not tall enough to be seen from the restaurant.

She managed to accomplish that ... ... then what?

[pegasus]

She managed to accomplish that ... ... then what?

Two experts proposed continuations (see relevant thread) which, after going through the stairgate, go like this:
(A) walked downhill along Rua Martins and was taken by a completely opportunistic person near entrance to Tapas reception.
(B) walked downhill along Rua Martins past Tapas reception and then followed path to supermarket carpark and  was taken by a completely opportunistic person from supermarket carpark.

IMO if a child did leave the apartment alone and get past the stairgate, there are other possible explanations for a subsequent disappearance after getting past the stairgate, without assuming any abductor.

[Anna]

Two experts proposed continuations (see relevant thread) which, after going through the stairgate, go like this:
(A) walked downhill along Rua Martins and was taken by a completely opportunistic person near entrance to Tapas reception.
(B) walked downhill along Rua Martins past Tapas reception and then followed path to supermarket carpark and  was taken by a completely opportunistic person from supermarket carpark.

IMO if a child did leave the apartment alone and get past the stairgate, there are other possible explanations for a subsequent disappearance after getting past the stairgate, without assuming any abductor.

On cobbles or rough walkway?…..No I don’t think she would have gone further than the Tapas bar if this was the case……Why would she?

Opportunist who just happened to be around at the same time as the causers of her panic?
They would risk taking a squealing, struggling child from a holiday complex? No don’t believe that one either. Sorry Pegasus.

If a burglar or intruder to 5A, had panicked her however, she may have ran out of a door. Whether it was the balcony doors and child gate or the front door that may have been left open by the intruder?

If there was a possibility that she could recognise them, they would be fast on her heels catching her and muffling any screams.  Then she would be put in the get away vehicle.

[pegasus]

On cobbles or rough walkway?…..No I don’t think she would have gone further than the Tapas bar if this was the case……Why would she? ...(snip)

I agree that without shoes the distance covered after going past the stairgate would probably be short.
The questions "had you told the child you would be out? had you told the child you were at a restaurant? had you told the child which one?" are so important but appear to have never been asked by investigators, therefore it is pure conjecture to assume that a wandering child would know a specific destination to head for.

[Anna]

I agree that without shoes the distance covered after going past the stairgate would probably be short.
The questions "had you told the child you would be out? had you told the child you were at a restaurant? had you told the child which one?" are so important but appear to have never been asked by investigators, therefore it is pure conjecture to assume that a wandering child would know a specific destination to head for.

That is true, but I was thinking....The nearest place she was likely to get help, if she was in a frightened state. Just another scenario though.

[pegasus]

(snip)...
Opportunist who just happened to be around at the same time as the causers of her panic?
They would risk taking a squealing, struggling child from a holiday complex? No don’t believe that one either. Sorry Pegasus.

If a burglar or intruder to 5A, had panicked her however, she may have ran out of a door. Whether it was the balcony doors and child gate or the front door that may have been left open by the intruder?

If there was a possibility that she could recognise them, they would be fast on her heels catching her and muffling any screams.  Then she would be put in the get away vehicle.

If the child passed the stairgate and went down the stairs IMO there are possible continuations (including some in which there is no perp) which are more far likely than abduction.

[pegasus]

That is true, but I was thinking....The nearest place she was likely to get help, if she was in a frightened state. Just another scenario though.

Understood, but there are other possibilities. For example imagine a child knows adults are in a restaurant but has not been told which one, and sees it is dark. The only experience of eating in a restaurant in the evening and of walking home from that restuarant, probably in the dark, was evening 28th. So one instinctive response might be to walk trying to retrace backwards the route home from Millenium evening 28th.

[Anna]

Understood, but there are other possibilities. For example imagine a child knows adults are in a restaurant but has not been told which one, and sees it is dark. The only experience of eating in a restaurant in the evening and of walking home from that restuarant, probably in the dark, was evening 28th. So one instinctive response might be to walk trying to retrace backwards the route home from Millenium evening 28th.

If she went out of the child gate and down the stairs. Where was the most familiar direction tp her which would have been used for swimming pool, tennis courts, high tea etc? A child in a panic would not be reasoning as to where her parents were.....she would be seeking help in a familiar area close by. IMO