Author Topic: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail  (Read 251021 times)

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Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #135 on: August 12, 2015, 12:01:59 PM »
John: how does your assessment of Tongo's evidence impact your views on Dewani's guilt?

Any views on why Tongo lied when his plea deal depended only upon him telling the whole truth and nothing but?

Offline John

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #136 on: August 12, 2015, 12:19:08 PM »
Apologies John for not being able to address this until today.  Its not easy to respond to such a post briefly as you make a number of points. 

Tongo's testimony was not merely convoluted. His version of events contradicted his own statements as well as those of his co-conspirators on almost every material aspect of the case. The only thing that the phone calls and texts proved, was that there was interaction between Tongo and Dewani. Neither Tongo or Dewani disputed that those interactions took place. The only thing that was in dispute was whether those interactions related to organising a helicopter trip or a murder. Paragraphs 20-22 of the Judgement explain this.

It is natural that there would be some errors and inconsistencies when recalling events from four years prior. Whilst these do raise little flags regarding his reliability as a witness, we are of the belief that these "mistakes" on their own do not prove that Tongo was lying about Dewani's involvement. The proof lies in the deceptive fabrications and perjury, in which Tongo was caught red handed. Apologies but I'm just going to lift a few examples straight from our site rather than typing it again.

TRUE 23:

Both Tongo and Mbolombo were caught fabricating testimony, relating to a phone call and texts that never existed, with the sole purpose of incriminating Shrien Dewani. The gist of their testimony was to make it appear as though Dewani had been chastising them to ensure that his wife would be killed and was in a hurry for it to happen. Paragraphs 23.1.79, and 24.3.37 of the Judgement, detail these fabrications, and the fact that both the prosecution and the defence teams agreed that the call/texts never took place.

TRUE 28:

There was a fifth conspirator in the plot, who was referenced in a taped phone conversation between Tongo and Mbolombo. Both Tongo and Mbolombo refused to name the fifth conspirator in Court. They contradicted each other’s answers and lied to cover this person’s identity. Paragraph 23.1.100 and 23.1.101 of the Judgement explain this point.
 
TRUE 29:

Qwabe refused to explain to the Court, why he drove Anni back into a residential area, when (according to him) he was carrying out a planned execution. Paragraph 24.1.28 of the Judgement, summarises Qwabe’s nonsensical contradictory evidence in this regard.


TRUE 33:

On the night of the fatal robbery, Zola Tongo made two “passes” through Gugulethu, with the Dewanis travelling in his taxi. The hijacking was supposed to occur on the first pass, however it didn’t eventuate because Qwabe and Mngeni failed to get a ride to the agreed location by the agreed time. After stopping for dinner, the hijacking was re-scheduled and took place later in the evening during the second pass through Gugulethu. Tongo admitted, under oath, that he made no attempt to ascertain whether the money was in the car prior to the first pass through Gugulethu, and since the Dewanis sat in the back of the taxi, Tongo knew with 100% certainty that the money could not be in the cubbyhole. This point is of great importance, given Zola Tongo’s claim that an integral part of the plan was for Dewani to leave an “agreed” R15,000 in the car’s cubbyhole (glovebox) for the hijackers. So despite knowing that the key element of his own version, the price of the hit, was not in place he was content to drive to the hijacking spot anyway. This is solid proof that there was no “agreed” sum, and that this was in fact a robbery/kidnapping operation of which Shrien Dewani had absolutely no knowledge. Paragraphs 23.1.71 and 23.1.78 of the Judgement detail this crucial point, and highlight Tongo’s deception.



Those are but a few examples of Tongo's deceptiveness. Read our site or the Judgement if you are interested in having the full arsenal of facts at your disposal.

It is our view (and the judge's view) that the hitman story could not reasonably possibly be true. It doesn't make any sense, its highly improbable on many levels, and the criminals who told that story were caught in so many instances of deception that it became obvious that they made it up to serve their own purposes.

Perhaps you can understand then why we are outraged at Mbolombo being a free man? The NPA have apparently told him that he will never be prosecuted. Does that sound like justice for Anni?

Thank you for providing a full response, I can see no room for argument with it.  I also agree with you that it is an outrage that this character Mbolombo was allowed to walk free in the circumstances.  One has to wonder what else he gave over to the SA police in order to secure such a deal or was he in fact a paid informer from the beginning?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #137 on: August 12, 2015, 12:22:55 PM »
John: how does your assessment of Tongo's evidence impact your views on Dewani's guilt?

Any views on why Tongo lied when his plea deal depended only upon him telling the whole truth and nothing but?

As with all liars, in the end they begin to believe their own lies.  I am not in the least surprised that Tongo tripped himself up on the stand, he was left in a situation where he had to remember which lie he told and when.  In the end the telling of lies upon lies will take its toll.

It is just unfortunate that the SA police couldn't have done their job properly, with honesty and integrity, rather, they left it to a judge to do it for them.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 12:26:21 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #138 on: August 12, 2015, 12:38:04 PM »
The problem with a web of lies, as you correctly observe, is that they usually unravel. Tongo's plea bargain hearing, rubber stamped in 42 minutes, set the SA justice system down a steep slippery slope and just like a human descending a steep slippery slope it became almost impossible to backtrack or recover so the lies had to continue.

If you think the Dewani trial was controversial then you might find it interesting to read our latest blog post about the 2012 trial of Mngeni, one of the two hijackers. The guy who died jail. The trial anomalies are eye opening to say the least.

https://dewanifacts.wordpress.com/blog/

 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 12:43:46 PM by dewanifacts »

Offline John

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #139 on: August 12, 2015, 12:50:27 PM »
One point which interested me was the testimony by Tongo claiming that Dewani had threatened him and was insisting that the hijacking and killing had to be done that night.  The way I see this explained is that this conversation never took place.  Tongo knew that Dewani had brought the R10,000 for the helicopter trip which he was handing over to Tongo that night so the taxi had to be carjacked that night.

Tongo was an opportunist and contacted Mbolombo as he had probably done on other occasions in order to have the robbery carried out.  Mbolombo was the middle man, the fixer, who as a hotel receptionist was well placed to see which wealthy guests were coming and going. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 12:56:18 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #140 on: August 12, 2015, 12:54:28 PM »
  I also agree with you that it is an outrage that this character Mbolombo was allowed to walk free in the circumstances.  One has to wonder what else he gave over to the SA police in order to secure such a deal or was he in fact a paid informer from the beginning?

Paid informer from the beginning? Thats an interesting line of thought. Have not come across that before. Will give it some consideration.

The one question that immediately comes to mind is why would he lie in two criminal trials if he was being paid by the police to inform?  I guess its theoretically possible that other criminals discovered that he was an informant, he was threatened and became a double agent of sorts by taking the money from the police but then not keeping his end of the bargain. That then begs the question of why the police and the NPA would allow him to get away with it.....

It is a highway of speculation really and without corroborating facts, probably takes us further from the truth rather than closer.

Offline John

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #141 on: August 12, 2015, 12:59:44 PM »
Paid informer from the beginning? Thats an interesting line of thought. Have not come across that before. Will give it some consideration.

The one question that immediately comes to mind is why would he lie in two criminal trials if he was being paid by the police to inform?  I guess its theoretically possible that other criminals discovered that he was an informant, he was threatened and became a double agent of sorts by taking the money from the police but then not keeping his end of the bargain. That then begs the question of why the police and the NPA would allow him to get away with it.....

It is a highway of speculation really and without corroborating facts, probably takes us further from the truth rather than closer.

Have you considered that prosecuting Mbolombo could have opened up a huge can of worms for the SAP and possibly jeopardised other pending cases?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #142 on: August 12, 2015, 01:04:37 PM »
Its more speculation, but its possible, yes. Although of what worth is an informer who has perjured himself twice and managed to make the NPA look like fools to the world in a very high profile trial?

We are fans of Occam's Razor.

There's a far more likely reason for why the NPA aren't prosecuting Mbolombo. It will be the subject of a future blog post on our site, but its not hard for you to work out what that reason is. You are on the right track when you say that it would open a huge can of worms for the NPA and the SAPS.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 01:43:48 PM by dewanifacts »

Offline John

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #143 on: August 12, 2015, 01:54:35 PM »
Its more speculation, but its possible, yes. Although of what worth is an informer who has perjured himself twice and managed to make the NPA look like fools to the world in a very high profile trial?

We are fans of Occam's Razor.

There's a far more likely reason for why the NPA aren't prosecuting Mbolombo. It will be the subject of a future blog post on our site, but its not hard for you to work out what that reason is. You are on the right track when you say that it would open a huge can of worms for the NPA and the SAPS.

I can well imagine.

Back to Dewani.  I think he did much damage to his credibility by attempting to thwart the extradition process in the way he did by throwing money at it.  In my opinion he should have gone back to SA and fought the case instead of looking for ways to avoid it.  In this respect I put the blame firmly at the feet of the English Courts for prolonging his return.  This huge delay not only allowed the other defendants to conspire against him but caused enormous hurt to Anni's family.

A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #144 on: August 12, 2015, 01:58:33 PM »
I can well imagine.

Back to Dewani.  I think he did much damage to his credibility by attempting to thwart the extradition process in the way he did by throwing money at it.  In my opinion he should have gone back to SA and fought the case instead of looking for ways to avoid it.  In this respect I put the blame firmly at the feet of the English Courts for prolonging his return.  This huge delay not only allowed the other defendants to conspire against him but caused enormous hurt to Anni's family.

It made him look guilty every time he was seen in court.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #145 on: August 12, 2015, 02:25:28 PM »
I don't understand why Dewani gave a stranger from a slum money for a helicopter trip.  Just like in this country, the normal way to organise this is to phone the helicopter company, book the trip and give them your credit card number over the phone - they do work in South Africa you know! I recall 5 star hotels will also sometimes have a selection of trips organised which the Reception Desk will book for you and then the trip appears on your bill at the end of your stay.

Referring to my previous post about dishonesty in South Africa I can tell you from bitter experience if you give an ordinary person a large sum of money they will just vanish with it.  You would not give the taxi driver the money for the helicopter trip:  the unlicensed taxi driver from a slum where there aren't even proper street addresses would just vanish and you would never see him or your money again. 

I've done the helicopter trip:  the taxi would take you to the launch site close by the Waterfront (I went in my own car).  He would wait, because he also wants the fare to take you back (or in my case if using a taxi I usually negotiated a set fee for them to be at my beck and call all day:  petrol is cheap in SA and so are taxis).  You walk into the small office of the helicopter tour company by the helipad and either pay them cash or with your credit card if you didn't earlier then you go up in the helicopter.  In South Africa, you avoid giving middle men the money because it doesn't get to its destination. 

It is also highly unusual for someone like a lowly taxi driver, let alone an unlicensed one, to enter a 5 star hotel.  I would expect him to get grief from the security guard at the front door, whose job it is to keep people like him out.  Unfortunately with such a wealth divide, and the legacy of an apartheid upbringing, I'd expect someone of his age and background to be extremely ill-at-ease entering anywhere beyond the foyer, knowing they are completely out of place and might be in serious trouble for being there (I have seen some appalling public taking-downs by white management in SA, who play to the gallery for what they expect the white paying customer wants).  In my experience as a former employer and a tourist there, I'd expect someone from such a humble background to be so out of his depth he would decline to go beyond the lobby, be fiddling with his hat and looking around nervously and certainly not sit down on a sofa and make himself comfortable.

I know none of this is specific, I'm just highlighting once again, how extraordinarily out of the ordinary everything about this case is to someone who knows what is customary.  I had periods where I lived in various 5 star hotels in South Africa for months and I had the experience, as a foreigner, of observing how different their social hierarchy and interaction was to the UK.  Until about 15 years ago it was illegal for this man to look a white person in the eye - that was very hard to change in older members of the workforce brought up under apartheid:  they're still very respectful and hierarchical, call you 'bass' and 'madam' and 'menir'.  I found this episode very odd too.

As for the lying:  when they are caught out its like dealing with little children - they just say the most stupid, easily disproved lies, anything they can think of.  My husband and I employed about 200 people at one point:  as an employer you become part of their clan, they bring all their problems to you - their marriage problems, they're in jail for hitting someone after getting drunk, a mass brawl over a brother-in-law not repaying money, pistol-whipping someone who stole from their aunt's business - we even had an employee take money to finance setting her girlfriend up in a brothel - even the witnesses tell little lies because they don't want to disclose some little scheme they were running on the side.  That's not even the lies they tell for stealing from you even though you just gave them a payrise, stood them bail and lent them money because they accidentally drank it all.  They all tell a web of stupid, easily disproved lies.  It's a cultural thing.

Offline dewanifacts

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #146 on: August 12, 2015, 02:28:07 PM »
Dewani did a lot of things that made himself look guilty, although I don't believe that fighting extradition was one of them.

His failure to mention the helicopter and money to the police remains, to my mind, the single biggest mystery surrounding his involvement, which is tied to the equally perplexing naivety that saw him believing Tongo to be an innocent victim and worthy of pity and a R1000 payment.

 

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #147 on: August 12, 2015, 02:39:21 PM »
Dewani did a lot of things that made himself look guilty, although I don't believe that fighting extradition was one of them.

His failure to mention the helicopter and money to the police remains, to my mind, the single biggest mystery surrounding his involvement, which is tied to the equally perplexing naivety that saw him believing Tongo to be an innocent victim and worthy of pity and a R1000 payment.

For once we agree!

Helicopter Tour Page: 

https://www.helicopterscapetown.co.za

Dearest tour:  £175pp

I quite forgot that whereas I drove there, because by that time a had a flat in the CBD, the helicopter takes off at the tip of the V&A Waterfront it was only a few hundred yards through that scenic video I posted yesterday and without a shadow of a doubt they would have walked there.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #148 on: August 12, 2015, 02:52:51 PM »
The mass of grey on the map is that world class shopping centre with a multiscreen cinema I was talking about.  The Cape Grace is just off the map at the bottom in about the Middle.  Almost the whole walk is full of buskers and street artists, a working harbour, seals, restaurants, happy holiday makers etc.  Out towards the point where the helipad is it's a bit more industrial:  that's where visiting warships US/British/French navies are docked, and it is a bit tarmaccy and carparky - there's a big sea wall thing wraps right along that top sea side which has lots of people walking their dog, couples taking a sunset stroll etc.

I've put a star on where the helicopter rides all go from and a star in their hotel on a Google map for you.





[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline John

Re: Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail
« Reply #149 on: August 12, 2015, 02:58:36 PM »
I don't understand why Dewani gave a stranger from a slum money for a helicopter trip.  Just like in this country, the normal way to organise this is to phone the helicopter company, book the trip and give them your credit card number over the phone - they do work in South Africa you know! I recall 5 star hotels will also sometimes have a selection of trips organised which the Reception Desk will book for you and then the trip appears on your bill at the end of your stay.

Referring to my previous post about dishonesty in South Africa I can tell you from bitter experience if you give an ordinary person a large sum of money they will just vanish with it.  You would not give the taxi driver the money for the helicopter trip:  the unlicensed taxi driver from a slum where there aren't even proper street addresses would just vanish and you would never see him or your money again. 

I've done the helicopter trip:  the taxi would take you to the launch site close by the Waterfront (I went in my own car).  He would wait, because he also wants the fare to take you back (or in my case if using a taxi I usually negotiated a set fee for them to be at my beck and call all day:  petrol is cheap in SA and so are taxis).  You walk into the small office of the helicopter tour company by the helipad and either pay them cash or with your credit card if you didn't earlier then you go up in the helicopter.  In South Africa, you avoid giving middle men the money because it doesn't get to its destination. 


The simple answer to this would be that Tongo sold the trip to Shrien Dewani probably offering him some sort of incentive for cash.  Dewani wasn't to know Tongo was from the slums, to him he was a licensed operator so could be trusted with a mere Rand 10,000 or £500
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 03:01:32 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.