Author Topic: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!  (Read 72831 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #810 on: February 20, 2019, 07:05:23 PM »
That Zionism is not the same as Jewishness.
How does it do that?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #811 on: February 24, 2019, 07:32:16 AM »
Excellent article here regarding “The Jewish Question”.

Yet Corbyn still thinks he is our leading anti-racist
February 24 2019, 12:01am,
Dominic Lawson

Perhaps his slogan needs to be rewritten: ‘For the many, not the Jew’


‘Not the Jews, again!” This, roughly, must be what Jeremy Corbyn and his closest associates are thinking, as a clutch of MPs quit on the grounds that Labour’s leadership has abjectly failed to root out anti-semitic bullying and abuse within the party.

A fortnight ago the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, responded to Luciana Berger’s complaints about the attempt to deselect her — one official in her Liverpool Wavertree constituency denounced her as a “disruptive Zionist” — by demanding she show her own loyalty. Now that this Jewish MP has turned the tables by walking out in disgust — declaring herself “ashamed” of what has happened to a movement her family has been associated with for almost a century — Corbyn’s left-hand man has hastily changed tone.

Moving from threat to contrition with a speed that invites cynicism, McDonnell admitted the party needed to conduct a “massive listening exercise” to address the concerns of its (rapidly decreasing) Jewish membership. Echoing this, Labour’s representative on last Thursday’s Question Time, Andy McDonald, told the BBC audience that anti-semitism in the party was a “hugely difficult issue which we are addressing”.

That’s awfully good of them. But these belated admissions fail to answer the first and most important question. Just why does Labour now find the filth of anti-semitism to be such an intractable problem within its ranks? And the truth (which McDonnell will never admit) is it is a direct consequence of the leadership of his best mate, Jeremy Corbyn.

Corbyn’s consuming passion over decades has been the cause of the Palestinian people: he regards the post-Holocaust creation of a Jewish homeland in 1948 to have been not a blessing but a curse — and a colonialist curse, at that. Hence his furious resistance to signing Labour up to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of anti-semitism: for months he refused to accept the clause that said one example of anti-semitism was the claim that the Jewish state was “a racist endeavour”.

You can see Jezza’s problem. He has spent decades on platforms with people who habitually denounce the existence of Israel in precisely those terms. Indeed, he has welcomed to the House of Commons and claimed as his friends Hamas, an organisation that embeds that monstrous forgery, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in its charter, and is sworn not just to eliminate the state of Israel but Jews wherever they live.

Corbyn, in his own defence, argues he has always criticised anti-semitism and down the years has signed a number of parliamentary motions to that effect. The accusation that he is racist is said to have made him deeply miserable. His entire sense of identity is based on the view that he is the country’s leading anti-racist; it must be mental torture for such a man to be denounced as a racist himself.

But I suspect he doesn’t see the Jews as in any sense a race. In this country, at least, they — we — are white. And, on average, better off than non-Jews. This leads to a peculiar form of double standard among a type of left-winger. The sort described in these pages last year by David Baddiel: he had been told by a “progressive friend” that while it was vile to call people of colour the n-word, it was less so to refer to Jews as “yids”. When Baddiel asked for the basis of this distinction, he got the reply: “Because Jews are rich.”

Actually, there are poor Jews as well as rich ones, but that’s not the point. This is the bit where the hard left are prey to the classic anti-semitic tropes: that “the Jews” are manipulative financial bloodsuckers, exploiters of the masses. And it is the hard left (such as former Militant members) who have flooded back into the Labour Party to support Corbyn and McDonnell, both of whom fought against the expulsion of Militant in the 1980s.

Of course, this indestructible prejudice is also endemic on the far right, which is why some people move effortlessly from one to the other: they find the same comforting conspiracy theory about Jewish capitalists pulling the strings of governments to oppress the workers. Karl Marx was of this opinion.

Thus Corbyn thought it unexceptionable to defend the artist whose East End mural depicting grotesque hook-nosed bankers playing Monopoly on the backs of the poor was removed after complaints by locals. Those locals were mocked by the artist as “older white Jewish folk [who] had an issue with me portraying their beloved Rothschild or Warburg etc as the demons they are”. It was Luciana Berger who questioned a Facebook post by Corbyn defending the mural. Initially, she got no response. Only when she went public last March, tweeting the image and Corbyn’s endorsement of it, did the Labour leader express “regret”. He claimed a sort of invincible ignorance — he hadn’t appreciated the anti-semitic nature of the imagery.

This episode helps to explain why Liverpool Wavertree wanted the “disruptive Zionist” Berger deselected and why she was so loathed by the party’s leadership. It also explains why one of Corbyn’s staunchest supporters in the parliamentary party, Ruth George, suggested that those of her colleagues who resigned with Berger last week were being funded by “the state of Israel”. Yes, it’s all part of the worldwide Jewish plot to destroy the anti-capitalist leadership of the Labour Party.

I suggested earlier that it was incredulity on the part of that leadership that it could ever be guilty of any form of racism, which prevented it from taking condign action against abusively anti-semitic party members. There is another explanation provided by the chairman of the Jewish Leadership Council, Jonathan Goldstein — who had a tetchy meeting with Corbyn last year. He insists he was told by someone close to the Labour leadership that “they were convinced the perception of anti-semitism would play well for them electorally, that the Jews were part of ‘the few’ and, as oppressors, deserved no protection”. Goldstein adds: “This seemed crazy to me at the time but, as this awful saga drags on and on, maybe that person was right after all.”

It’s a remarkable allegation: that Corbyn and his coterie thought being seen as anti-semitic would mix well with their core message. In other words: for the many, not the Jew. The poll published in last week’s Sunday Times, showing that the anti-semitism row is repelling many Labour voters, is an encouraging refutation of any such sordid calculation.

On the other hand, if this causes a terminal split in the party and extinguishes the hard left’s chance of capturing national power, I think we know whom they will blame above all. The Jews, again.

dominic.lawson@sunday-times.co.uk

"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #812 on: February 24, 2019, 09:34:26 AM »
It's a debate around which emotions run high. It's also obviously true that being a Zionist and being Jewish are not the same thing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36160928

It's been very difficult to have any reasonable discussions about the actions of the state of Israel because anyone critical of them has tended to be accused of anti-Semetosm, anti-Zionism or both.

The U.S. Congress is split on passing a law against anti-Semitism, a law which would jail Americans for 20 years for the crime of criticizing Israel. Anyone criticizing Israel’s war against Palestine gets accused of anti-Semitism, which I consider a red herring to deflect accountability for murder. Just because Jews have been persecuted, doesn’t make their persecution of Palestinians acceptable. Persecution is persecution. It’s always wrong.
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/05/30/israeli-atrocities-against-palestinians-and-international-response/

Is it riight to equate criticism of a government to anti-Semetism? Wouldn't that mean that all those criticising the actions of the Iranian government are anti-Persian or anti-Muslim?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #813 on: February 24, 2019, 10:08:01 AM »
It's a debate around which emotions run high. It's also obviously true that being a Zionist and being Jewish are not the same thing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36160928

It's been very difficult to have any reasonable discussions about the actions of the state of Israel because anyone critical of them has tended to be accused of anti-Semetosm, anti-Zionism or both.

The U.S. Congress is split on passing a law against anti-Semitism, a law which would jail Americans for 20 years for the crime of criticizing Israel. Anyone criticizing Israel’s war against Palestine gets accused of anti-Semitism, which I consider a red herring to deflect accountability for murder. Just because Jews have been persecuted, doesn’t make their persecution of Palestinians acceptable. Persecution is persecution. It’s always wrong.
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/05/30/israeli-atrocities-against-palestinians-and-international-response/

Is it riight to equate criticism of a government to anti-Semetism? Wouldn't that mean that all those criticising the actions of the Iranian government are anti-Persian or anti-Muslim?
There is being critical of the actions of the state of Israel and then there is intolerance for the very existence of that state.  Corbyn has been an active supporter of those who deny Israel’s right to exist all his
political life.  I call that anti-semitic, as do most Jews if you ask them, and surely it is the vtargets of hatred ideology who are best placed to decide whether or not they are victims of it?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #814 on: February 24, 2019, 10:54:59 AM »
There is being critical of the actions of the state of Israel and then there is intolerance for the very existence of that state.  Corbyn has been an active supporter of those who deny Israel’s right to exist all his
political life.  I call that anti-semitic, as do most Jews if you ask them, and surely it is the vtargets of hatred ideology who are best placed to decide whether or not they are victims of it?

So you agree that equating criticism of Israel with anti-Semetism is a step too far? Yet many Jews hold that opinion. Subjective views can't be the sole measuure of anything imo, be it sexism, racism or anti-Semetism. I'm all for equal treatment for women, but I certainly don't agree with some of the opinions expressed by some women. Is it sensible to campaign to remove the word 'man'  ftom 'woman' and call women 'wo' instead?
https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-fight-the-patriarchy-by-removing-man-from-woman


Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Davel

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #815 on: February 24, 2019, 11:16:46 AM »
So you agree that equating criticism of Israel with anti-Semetism is a step too far? Yet many Jews hold that opinion. Subjective views can't be the sole measuure of anything imo, be it sexism, racism or anti-Semetism. I'm all for equal treatment for women, but I certainly don't agree with some of the opinions expressed by some women. Is it sensible to campaign to remove the word 'man'  ftom 'woman' and call women 'wo' instead?
https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-fight-the-patriarchy-by-removing-man-from-woman

criticisn of the Israeli govt is not anti semetic...criticism of israel as a country as a whole...is xenophobic and anti semetic.
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Eleanor

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #816 on: February 24, 2019, 11:21:09 AM »
On a more personal note, my stepmother who I didn't like all that much, and who certainly didn't like me, was a Jew.  And when I lived with her as a child she was in permanent fear, to such an extent that she pretended that my half brother wasn't Jewish, thereby depriving him of something I consider to be of importance to him.  But in those days one did as one must.

Israel would never have survived without Zionists.  They didn't just fight.  They turned a desert which the Arabs didn't want, into a land fit to live in.  They picked up the detritus of the death camps and turned it into a working nation, while Palestine looked on.  When the Palestinians weren't trying to slaughter them.

The Zionists were just fighters who were done with being victimised.  How bloody dare they.

Try living with someone who is in fear.  Try being eight years old and seeing what the Germans did.  I will never forget.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #817 on: February 24, 2019, 11:35:07 AM »
criticisn of the Israeli govt is not anti semetic...criticism of israel as a country as a whole...is xenophobic and anti semetic.

There are Americans who disagree with you to the extent that they want to make it illegal. That would be giving the Israeli government carte blanche whatever it did. 
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Davel

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #818 on: February 24, 2019, 11:41:14 AM »
There are Americans who disagree with you to the extent that they want to make it illegal. That would be giving the Israeli government carte blanche whatever it did.

make what illegal..you belong to a group that sees criticising the portuguese police as xenophobic...it isnt
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Eleanor

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #819 on: February 24, 2019, 11:41:22 AM »
There are Americans who disagree with you to the extent that they want to make it illegal. That would be giving the Israeli government carte blanche whatever it did.

Nonsense.  Israel is a State and will defend itself.  And has every right to do so.  The disgrace is that Israel still has to do this.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #820 on: February 24, 2019, 01:28:39 PM »
On a more personal note, my stepmother who I didn't like all that much, and who certainly didn't like me, was a Jew.  And when I lived with her as a child she was in permanent fear, to such an extent that she pretended that my half brother wasn't Jewish, thereby depriving him of something I consider to be of importance to him.  But in those days one did as one must.

Israel would never have survived without Zionists.  They didn't just fight.  They turned a desert which the Arabs didn't want, into a land fit to live in.  They picked up the detritus of the death camps and turned it into a working nation, while Palestine looked on.  When the Palestinians weren't trying to slaughter them.

The Zionists were just fighters who were done with being victimised.  How bloody dare they.

Try living with someone who is in fear.  Try being eight years old and seeing what the Germans did.  I will never forget.



I don't suppose the Arabs who were shunted off THEIR land -their children slaughtered for throwing stones felt a bit annoyed. So what we are saying here is  the Zionists who stole land  slaughtered innocents are the good guys because they were shunted our of THEIR land in Europe and slaughtered.. yes makes sense   doesn't it?

The Zionist are still land grabbing claiming it was given to them by god. A lot of Israeli citizens do not support this land grabbing and leaving Arabs homeless.

It is NOT the arabs fault what happened to the Jews (let us not forget them many millions of non jews) so why treat them so badly.

fundamentalist on both sides would best be eradicated! if the ordinary people want peace.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Eleanor

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #821 on: February 24, 2019, 01:53:49 PM »


I don't suppose the Arabs who were shunted off THEIR land -their children slaughtered for throwing stones felt a bit annoyed. So what we are saying here is  the Zionists who stole land  slaughtered innocents are the good guys because they were shunted our of THEIR land in Europe and slaughtered.. yes makes sense   doesn't it?

The Zionist are still land grabbing claiming it was given to them by god. A lot of Israeli citizens do not support this land grabbing and leaving Arabs homeless.

It is NOT the arabs fault what happened to the Jews (let us not forget them many millions of non jews) so why treat them so badly.

fundamentalist on both sides would best be eradicated! if the ordinary people want peace.

Oh do come on.  The desert was always there.  The Arabs didn't want it because it was too much like hard work.

The Golan Heights are another story.  Would you just sit there if Arabs were raining bombs down on you?

The city of Jerusalem is not a problem.  Jews and Arabs were living in peace there for many a year.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #822 on: February 24, 2019, 02:55:08 PM »
make what illegal..you belong to a group that sees criticising the portuguese police as xenophobic...it isnt

Do you read my posta?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6559.msg513889#msg513889

Some Americans think that criticising Israel is antu-Semetic and that anyone doing so should be jailed for 20 years.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Eleanor

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #823 on: February 24, 2019, 02:57:50 PM »
Do you read my posta?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6559.msg513889#msg513889

Some Americans think that criticising Israel is antu-Semetic and that anyone doing so should be jailed for 20 years.

No one reads anyone's Posts as far as I can see.  Not even their own on occasions.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #824 on: February 24, 2019, 03:10:31 PM »


I don't suppose the Arabs who were shunted off THEIR land -their children slaughtered for throwing stones felt a bit annoyed. So what we are saying here is  the Zionists who stole land  slaughtered innocents are the good guys because they were shunted our of THEIR land in Europe and slaughtered.. yes makes sense   doesn't it?

The Zionist are still land grabbing claiming it was given to them by god. A lot of Israeli citizens do not support this land grabbing and leaving Arabs homeless.

It is NOT the arabs fault what happened to the Jews (let us not forget them many millions of non jews) so why treat them so badly.

fundamentalist on both sides would best be eradicated! if the ordinary people want peace.

I do find it difficult to justify recreating a state in the 20th Century which last existed in the 4th Century.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything