Author Topic: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!  (Read 120625 times)

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Offline Admin

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #270 on: September 17, 2015, 05:40:53 PM »
Jeremy is 66 at the moment and by the time of the next scheduled election in May 2020 he will be almost 71.  I don't know about you but a pensioner running the country is a bit of a long shot.  He should make for an interesting interim leader of the opposition though.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #271 on: September 17, 2015, 05:41:26 PM »
Did you see Corbyn on Newsnight being asked if he would kneel before the Queen?  Claimed he didn't know that this was a requirement of the leader of the opposition (how disingenuous, even I knew about this) and looked extremely shifty and un-forthright.  A bit like a politician in fact!

I thought he claimed he didn't know it was a requirement for a Privy Council member?
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Alfred R Jones

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #272 on: September 17, 2015, 06:04:38 PM »
I thought he claimed he didn't know it was a requirement for a Privy Council member?
Whatever.  You think an MP of 30+ years standing doesn't know about this stuff?  I suppose Jeremy's always had his mind on far more serious matters and that's his excuse and he's sticking by it.  Shame he couldn't give a straight answer when challenged though - I thought that straight talking was his USP??

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #273 on: September 17, 2015, 06:07:15 PM »
Interesting interview with JC:

http://www.thirdwaymagazine.co.uk/editions/july-2015/high-profile/far-sighted.aspx

Interviewer: "You advocated talking to Sinn Fťin long before it emerged that the Government was actually doing so. You admired Nelson Mandela when much of the media was still saying he should have been hanged. You campaigned for justice for the Palestinians long before that became respectable. You opposed the 'war on terror' long before many other MPs saw the dangers. Do you ever get credit for being ahead of the political curve"?

JC: "No - but I don't mind. It's not im≠portant. The cause is what's important".

Maybe JC will dumfound his critics and show how ahead of the political curve he is?   &%+((£
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.

Alfred R Jones

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #274 on: September 17, 2015, 06:10:43 PM »
Interesting interview with JC:

http://www.thirdwaymagazine.co.uk/editions/july-2015/high-profile/far-sighted.aspx

Interviewer: "You advocated talking to Sinn Fťin long before it emerged that the Government was actually doing so. You admired Nelson Mandela when much of the media was still saying he should have been hanged. You campaigned for justice for the Palestinians long before that became respectable. You opposed the 'war on terror' long before many other MPs saw the dangers. Do you ever get credit for being ahead of the political curve"?

JC: "No - but I don't mind. It's not im≠portant. The cause is what's important".

Maybe JC will dumfound his critics and show how ahead of the political curve he is?   &%+((£
Hmmm, maybe.  I don't remember much of the media saying that Nelson Mandela should be hanged though.  Maybe that was before my time.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #275 on: September 17, 2015, 08:28:35 PM »
Jeremy is 66 at the moment and by the time of the next scheduled election in May 2020 he will be almost 71.  I don't know about you but a pensioner running the country is a bit of a long shot.  He should make for an interesting interim leader of the opposition though.

I'm not making comparisons, but Churchill was PM from 1951=1955 and his age in 1951 was 77.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #276 on: September 17, 2015, 09:28:27 PM »
I'm not making comparisons, but Churchill was PM from 1951=1955 and his age in 1951 was 77.
Different times, different demands.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #277 on: September 17, 2015, 10:35:52 PM »
Well worth a read, many points I agree with from the Times)


The left will never really love this country
Philip Collins

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Published 1 minute ago
Jeremy Corbynís petulant refusal to sing the national anthem tells you all you need to know about his true sympathies
How strange that silence should reveal so much more about a man than anything he says. At the Battle of Britain commemoration in St Paulís cathedral, Jeremy Corbyn stood in silence as the national anthem played. Without uttering a word, he showed that the left has a fond idea of authenticity but is not fond of Britain. Which is something of a problem for a man auditioning to be prime minister.
To observe Mr Corbyn is an encounter with my adolescent self. I remember bucking the system by ignoring the headmasterís orders to do up the top button of my shirt. I once stood in silence while all the losers sang lustily a song that celebrates monarchy rather than the nation. When I was ignorant of all history, I snottily declared that poppies simply celebrated war rather than peace. As a fledgeling radical, I declared loftily that, when the Queen inducted me into the privy council, I would not bend my knee.
A small part of me that is for ever radical still believes some of this. I am much closer to Mr Corbyn on these issues than most people. But since I first had these thoughts I have gone through a process I recommend. It is called growing up. It involves understanding that the etiquette of a public occasion demands respect and good manners. Mr Corbyn is absolutely at liberty, of course, not to sing the national anthem. Everyone else is at an equal liberty to draw their own conclusions.
It was a moment that spoke to the nation. It was, first, a reminder of a brutal political lesson that the Corbyn supporters are learning in public, at the expense of the Labour party. If you have spent your political life moving from a rally of the persuaded to a march of the already aggrieved, there is no need to persuade. An act of assertion, even if it is conducted in silence, is all that is ever required. However, as soon as you enter democratic politics you suddenly find that authenticity comes at a price.
The best illustration is another one of the surprising number of questions on which I agree with Mr Corbyn. Iím going to have to be careful about this ó before long Iíll be wearing my fountain pen in my top pocket. I do, however, broadly approve of Mr Corbynís liberal position on immigration. However I weigh that authentic liberalism against the clear view of the people, especially the English, that immigration is imperilling a sense of nationhood. My authenticity and granite integrity might land me in trouble with people attracted to Ukip in the north of England. There are consequences I will not like. There is a choice here, which takes you into the realm of politics, a land Mr Corbyn has never before visited.
The country he lives in is not the same as the rest of us. These gestures, or absence of gestures, are not as trivial as Mr Corbynís supporters suggest. On the contrary, they are an eloquent reminder of an intellectual tradition on the left that disdains Britain. It is a literature I once found intriguing. Martin Amis once said of Philip Larkin that he lived a miserable life so that you didnít have to. I offer the same service with respect to Marxist histories of the nation because they provide the script for Mr Corbynís silence.
The far-left account of the nation comes from the theorist Perry Andersonís 1964 essay Origins of the Present Crisis. With apologies for the language, Anderson denounces Britainís ďferruginous philistinism and parochialismĒ. By missing out on a bourgeois revolution like Russia, we failed to properly evolve. This failure allowed the aristocratic establishment to reinvent itself and, to this day, the British state retains its feudal aspect. At its head, the monarchy personifies the exclusion of the people from real power. You find the same assumptions in Christopher Hillís biography of Bunyan. I used to love that book. These days I think a history of bunions would contain more political wisdom.
The belief that Britain is the site of a class war that the workers have lost can lead a man astray. I am ashamed to be a member of a party that has room for such as John McDonnell near its summit. There has always been a choice on the left, to support Sinn Fein or the SDLP. Mr McDonnellís remarks about the IRA derive from his belief that Britain has never cast off its imperial ambitions which, as the empire shrank, it visited upon Ireland. Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell, if pressed, do not regard the institutions of the British state as entirely legitimate. The whole panoply is part of a conspiracy, with the media as its mouthpiece. Hence Mr McDonnellís belief that the road to socialism does not need to pass through parliament. Ed Miliband has been replaced by Ralph Miliband.
Even when confronted by nationalism, as it is in Scotland, the Labour party has tended to believe it can be bought off with more socialism. Failing to grasp the nature of the nationalist assault, Labour will shift to the left in Scotland and make its predicament worse. At the same time, failing to respond to what EP Thompson called the peculiarities of the English creates an opening for Ukip. Labour has usually struggled in England. Wilson and Blair won majorities there but, for most of its history, Labour has relied on votes from Scotland and Wales, from whence its greatest heroes, Hardie and Bevan, have come. Labourís weakness in England explains why it is so suspicious of an English settlement in parliament.
Despite the recent efforts of John Denham and Jon Cruddas, Labour has rarely picked up Orwellís challenge to marry socialism with national identity. When Peter Mandelson devised a television advert that contained a British bulldog it felt like the last refuge for the Labour party. It would have seemed a bit crass but entirely commonplace on the right.
On all this, Mr Corbyn will maintain his silence. He has already, under duress, proclaimed his love of the those parts of the country he regards as just. He is happier, though, lamenting that it is too class-bound, not far enough along the Marxist historical trajectory for his liking. It must be hard for him to be confronted with choices after so long in the comfort zone. Can you really govern a nation whose anthem you would rather not sing? It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #278 on: September 18, 2015, 11:03:55 AM »
Different times, different demands.

Corbyn's age isn't relevant. In the US Hilary Clinton (67) and Donald Trump (69) aren't letting their ages stop them.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #279 on: September 18, 2015, 11:13:28 AM »
Well worth a read, many points I agree with from the Times)


The left will never really love this country
Philip Collins

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Published 1 minute ago
Jeremy Corbynís petulant refusal to sing the national anthem tells you all you need to know about his true sympathies
How strange that silence should reveal so much more about a man than anything he says. At the Battle of Britain commemoration in St Paulís cathedral, Jeremy Corbyn stood in silence as the national anthem played. Without uttering a word, he showed that the left has a fond idea of authenticity but is not fond of Britain. Which is something of a problem for a man auditioning to be prime minister.
To observe Mr Corbyn is an encounter with my adolescent self. I remember bucking the system by ignoring the headmasterís orders to do up the top button of my shirt. I once stood in silence while all the losers sang lustily a song that celebrates monarchy rather than the nation. When I was ignorant of all history, I snottily declared that poppies simply celebrated war rather than peace. As a fledgeling radical, I declared loftily that, when the Queen inducted me into the privy council, I would not bend my knee.
A small part of me that is for ever radical still believes some of this. I am much closer to Mr Corbyn on these issues than most people. But since I first had these thoughts I have gone through a process I recommend. It is called growing up. It involves understanding that the etiquette of a public occasion demands respect and good manners. Mr Corbyn is absolutely at liberty, of course, not to sing the national anthem. Everyone else is at an equal liberty to draw their own conclusions.
It was a moment that spoke to the nation. It was, first, a reminder of a brutal political lesson that the Corbyn supporters are learning in public, at the expense of the Labour party. If you have spent your political life moving from a rally of the persuaded to a march of the already aggrieved, there is no need to persuade. An act of assertion, even if it is conducted in silence, is all that is ever required. However, as soon as you enter democratic politics you suddenly find that authenticity comes at a price.
The best illustration is another one of the surprising number of questions on which I agree with Mr Corbyn. Iím going to have to be careful about this ó before long Iíll be wearing my fountain pen in my top pocket. I do, however, broadly approve of Mr Corbynís liberal position on immigration. However I weigh that authentic liberalism against the clear view of the people, especially the English, that immigration is imperilling a sense of nationhood. My authenticity and granite integrity might land me in trouble with people attracted to Ukip in the north of England. There are consequences I will not like. There is a choice here, which takes you into the realm of politics, a land Mr Corbyn has never before visited.
The country he lives in is not the same as the rest of us. These gestures, or absence of gestures, are not as trivial as Mr Corbynís supporters suggest. On the contrary, they are an eloquent reminder of an intellectual tradition on the left that disdains Britain. It is a literature I once found intriguing. Martin Amis once said of Philip Larkin that he lived a miserable life so that you didnít have to. I offer the same service with respect to Marxist histories of the nation because they provide the script for Mr Corbynís silence.
The far-left account of the nation comes from the theorist Perry Andersonís 1964 essay Origins of the Present Crisis. With apologies for the language, Anderson denounces Britainís ďferruginous philistinism and parochialismĒ. By missing out on a bourgeois revolution like Russia, we failed to properly evolve. This failure allowed the aristocratic establishment to reinvent itself and, to this day, the British state retains its feudal aspect. At its head, the monarchy personifies the exclusion of the people from real power. You find the same assumptions in Christopher Hillís biography of Bunyan. I used to love that book. These days I think a history of bunions would contain more political wisdom.
The belief that Britain is the site of a class war that the workers have lost can lead a man astray. I am ashamed to be a member of a party that has room for such as John McDonnell near its summit. There has always been a choice on the left, to support Sinn Fein or the SDLP. Mr McDonnellís remarks about the IRA derive from his belief that Britain has never cast off its imperial ambitions which, as the empire shrank, it visited upon Ireland. Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell, if pressed, do not regard the institutions of the British state as entirely legitimate. The whole panoply is part of a conspiracy, with the media as its mouthpiece. Hence Mr McDonnellís belief that the road to socialism does not need to pass through parliament. Ed Miliband has been replaced by Ralph Miliband.
Even when confronted by nationalism, as it is in Scotland, the Labour party has tended to believe it can be bought off with more socialism. Failing to grasp the nature of the nationalist assault, Labour will shift to the left in Scotland and make its predicament worse. At the same time, failing to respond to what EP Thompson called the peculiarities of the English creates an opening for Ukip. Labour has usually struggled in England. Wilson and Blair won majorities there but, for most of its history, Labour has relied on votes from Scotland and Wales, from whence its greatest heroes, Hardie and Bevan, have come. Labourís weakness in England explains why it is so suspicious of an English settlement in parliament.
Despite the recent efforts of John Denham and Jon Cruddas, Labour has rarely picked up Orwellís challenge to marry socialism with national identity. When Peter Mandelson devised a television advert that contained a British bulldog it felt like the last refuge for the Labour party. It would have seemed a bit crass but entirely commonplace on the right.
On all this, Mr Corbyn will maintain his silence. He has already, under duress, proclaimed his love of the those parts of the country he regards as just. He is happier, though, lamenting that it is too class-bound, not far enough along the Marxist historical trajectory for his liking. It must be hard for him to be confronted with choices after so long in the comfort zone. Can you really govern a nation whose anthem you would rather not sing? It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation.

As written by Blair's chief speechwriter.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #280 on: September 18, 2015, 12:34:13 PM »
"It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation."

He's only been in the job for six days!

Anyone who joins in with the media's assault on a new leader should be ashamed. Collins won't be because he knows perfectly well what he's doing - he enjoys joining the attack. By "realm of politics" he means the media that controls public discussion in a so-called democracy. Collins is happy about that. Corbyn isn't, and neither are those who voted for him. As ever that's where the struggle lies, and if Orwell were alive today he'd be on Corbyn's side (in that debate at least). Shame on Collins for suggesting otherwise.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 12:38:42 PM by Lyall »

Alfred R Jones

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #281 on: September 18, 2015, 02:15:22 PM »
Corbyn's age isn't relevant. In the US Hilary Clinton (67) and Donald Trump (69) aren't letting their ages stop them.
God, but I wish it would!!!

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #282 on: September 18, 2015, 02:16:22 PM »
As written by Blair's chief speechwriter.
And how does that fact invalidate what he has written?  Criticise the article, not the man.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #283 on: September 18, 2015, 02:20:07 PM »
"It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation."

He's only been in the job for six days!

Anyone who joins in with the media's assault on a new leader should be ashamed. Collins won't be because he knows perfectly well what he's doing - he enjoys joining the attack. By "realm of politics" he means the media that controls public discussion in a so-called democracy. Collins is happy about that. Corbyn isn't, and neither are those who voted for him. As ever that's where the struggle lies, and if Orwell were alive today he'd be on Corbyn's side (in that debate at least). Shame on Collins for suggesting otherwise.
Aww, bless.  Whatever happened to "Freedom of Speech"?  If you run for and win the position of Leader of the Opposition it's a dead cert you will be "attacked" by the media, particularly if you decide to antagonise them from the off in your acceptance speech (if not before). 

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #284 on: September 18, 2015, 03:19:48 PM »
Well worth a read, many points I agree with from the Times)


The left will never really love this country
Philip Collins

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Published 1 minute ago
Jeremy Corbynís petulant refusal to sing the national anthem tells you all you need to know about his true sympathies
Why petulant?
How strange that silence should reveal so much more about a man than anything he says. At the Battle of Britain commemoration in St Paulís cathedral, Jeremy Corbyn stood in silence as the national anthem played. Without uttering a word, he showed that the left has a fond idea of authenticity but is not fond of Britain. Which is something of a problem for a man auditioning to be prime minister.
Or not in favour of the monarchy?
To observe Mr Corbyn is an encounter with my adolescent self. I remember bucking the system by ignoring the headmasterís orders to do up the top button of my shirt. I once stood in silence while all the losers sang lustily a song that celebrates monarchy rather than the nation. When I was ignorant of all history, I snottily declared that poppies simply celebrated war rather than peace. As a fledgeling radical, I declared loftily that, when the Queen inducted me into the privy council, I would not bend my knee.
A small part of me that is for ever radical still believes some of this. I am much closer to Mr Corbyn on these issues than most people. But since I first had these thoughts I have gone through a process I recommend. It is called growing up. It involves understanding that the etiquette of a public occasion demands respect and good manners. Mr Corbyn is absolutely at liberty, of course, not to sing the national anthem. Everyone else is at an equal liberty to draw their own conclusions.
All in order to suggest Corbyn is childish
It was a moment that spoke to the nation. It was, first, a reminder of a brutal political lesson that the Corbyn supporters are learning in public, at the expense of the Labour party. If you have spent your political life moving from a rally of the persuaded to a march of the already aggrieved, there is no need to persuade. An act of assertion, even if it is conducted in silence, is all that is ever required. However, as soon as you enter democratic politics you suddenly find that authenticity comes at a price.
Corbyn may still have some persuading to do, but he has already persuaded the Labour Party, it seems.
The best illustration is another one of the surprising number of questions on which I agree with Mr Corbyn. Iím going to have to be careful about this ó before long Iíll be wearing my fountain pen in my top pocket. I do, however, broadly approve of Mr Corbynís liberal position on immigration. However I weigh that authentic liberalism against the clear view of the people, especially the English, that immigration is imperilling a sense of nationhood. My authenticity and granite integrity might land me in trouble with people attracted to Ukip in the north of England. There are consequences I will not like. There is a choice here, which takes you into the realm of politics, a land Mr Corbyn has never before visited.
As a long-standing MP I expect Mr Corbyn is not completely ignorant about politics. How patronising.
The country he lives in is not the same as the rest of us. These gestures, or absence of gestures, are not as trivial as Mr Corbynís supporters suggest. On the contrary, they are an eloquent reminder of an intellectual tradition on the left that disdains Britain. It is a literature I once found intriguing. Martin Amis once said of Philip Larkin that he lived a miserable life so that you didnít have to. I offer the same service with respect to Marxist histories of the nation because they provide the script for Mr Corbynís silence.
If he knows as much about Marxism as most it won't be a lot
The far-left account of the nation comes from the theorist Perry Andersonís 1964 essay Origins of the Present Crisis. With apologies for the language, Anderson denounces Britainís ďferruginous philistinism and parochialismĒ. By missing out on a bourgeois revolution like Russia, we failed to properly evolve. This failure allowed the aristocratic establishment to reinvent itself and, to this day, the British state retains its feudal aspect. At its head, the monarchy personifies the exclusion of the people from real power. You find the same assumptions in Christopher Hillís biography of Bunyan. I used to love that book. These days I think a history of bunions would contain more political wisdom.
There are many opinions on Marxism. I would like to know why he thinks Anderson's is the definitive one for the far left
The belief that Britain is the site of a class war that the workers have lost can lead a man astray. I am ashamed to be a member of a party that has room for such as John McDonnell near its summit. There has always been a choice on the left, to support Sinn Fein or the SDLP. Mr McDonnellís remarks about the IRA derive from his belief that Britain has never cast off its imperial ambitions which, as the empire shrank, it visited upon Ireland. Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell, if pressed, do not regard the institutions of the British state as entirely legitimate. The whole panoply is part of a conspiracy, with the media as its mouthpiece. Hence Mr McDonnellís belief that the road to socialism does not need to pass through parliament. Ed Miliband has been replaced by Ralph Miliband.
Perhaps he should resign his membership if he feels so strongly?
Even when confronted by nationalism, as it is in Scotland, the Labour party has tended to believe it can be bought off with more socialism. Failing to grasp the nature of the nationalist assault, Labour will shift to the left in Scotland and make its predicament worse. At the same time, failing to respond to what EP Thompson called the peculiarities of the English creates an opening for Ukip. Labour has usually struggled in England. Wilson and Blair won majorities there but, for most of its history, Labour has relied on votes from Scotland and Wales, from whence its greatest heroes, Hardie and Bevan, have come. Labourís weakness in England explains why it is so suspicious of an English settlement in parliament.
Despite the recent efforts of John Denham and Jon Cruddas, Labour has rarely picked up Orwellís challenge to marry socialism with national identity. When Peter Mandelson devised a television advert that contained a British bulldog it felt like the last refuge for the Labour party. It would have seemed a bit crass but entirely commonplace on the right.
On all this, Mr Corbyn will maintain his silence. He has already, under duress, proclaimed his love of the those parts of the country he regards as just. He is happier, though, lamenting that it is too class-bound, not far enough along the Marxist historical trajectory for his liking. It must be hard for him to be confronted with choices after so long in the comfort zone. Can you really govern a nation whose anthem you would rather not sing? It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation.

All in all, spin and half-truths.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.