Author Topic: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!  (Read 121311 times)

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Alfie

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #465 on: July 17, 2016, 03:12:23 PM »
The man has faced an orchestrated negative campaign ever since he was elected leader. Every politician deserves a level playing field. Interesting comments too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-media-bias-attacks-75-per-cent-three-quarters-fail-to-accurately-report-a7140681.html
Bless him.  But what's new?  He was a fool to think that stonewalling the media was going to endear himself to them, it's just one example of how he's not made great decisions since becoming leader. 

Alfie

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #466 on: July 17, 2016, 03:23:56 PM »
According to Jeremy's close ally Tariq Ali, and also to his own brother, Jeremy has always been virulently opposed to the EU and would have been campaigning to leave if he had still been on the backbenches.  So, how does that square with his being a supposedly "conviction politician"?  If he's been cleverer he would have outed himself as a Leaver at the start of the campaign.  He would now be in a much stronger position IMO.

Alfie

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #467 on: July 17, 2016, 03:28:33 PM »
“I went to ten boroughs. I went to 12 cities. I did 11 debates. I had to go up against Farage, Boris - all these people,” he said of his efforts in the campaign.

“He [Mr Corbyn] did nothing like that, nothing like that at all.

“When we had our planning meetings, when we had our Labour In planning meetings, we didn’t have anybody from the leader’s office turn up to any single planning meeting that we had for that national campaign.

“None of them turned up.”

Chuka Umunna.  Assuming Chuka is not telling bare-faced lies, what does this tell us about Jeremy and his leadership qualities?

Alfie

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #468 on: July 17, 2016, 03:59:11 PM »
"It sounds to me almost as if he’s decided he wants to destroy the Labour party and set up a new party which would be more like the Socialist Workers Party. That would be a disaster for this country. Because this country needs a centre socialist party. It needs that. It does not need a Socialist Workers Party.

"I’m not even convinced now he’s a nice chap. I have to say, in leadership terms, I’m afraid I don’t think Joe Average in this country would follow him as a leader even out of curiosity. That’s the problem.

"Everyone says what a nice chap he is, but if he doesn’t understand that, I’m beginning to feel that maybe he’s not quite such a nice chap. That there’s something rather more unpleasant lurking there." - Labour peer and former naval commander Lord West re: Jeremy Corbyn.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #469 on: July 17, 2016, 10:40:12 PM »
Thangam Debbonaire (posted on facebook)
12 hrs ·
Dear everyone who has asked me what my problems are with Corbyn's leadership,
Here is my experience.
Mr Corbyn appointed me and press released this without my knowledge or consent whilst I was in the middle of cancer treatment. He then sacked me the next day when he realized he had given away part of someone else's role. But didn't bother to tell me that either. By then my office had been besieged by press and the story was out that I was Shadow Minister. I decided to make the best of it and to serve. I worked on his Arts policy whilst I was still having treatment but in Bristol..
When I went back to Westminster, I discovered that he had sacked me but hadn't told me and did not have any ideas for how I was supposed to explain it to Bristol West members or constituents. I was then faced with the choice of telling the truth - that he had made a series of errors, and inevitably thereby face a pile of criticism from his supporters - or say I had changed my mind about accepting the role - and thereby face a pile of criticism from.his supporters. And I knew the pile would arrive because I had seen how it went for others who had resigned. And because Corbyn supporters had already piled into me for disloyalty when I had had to miss votes for cancer treatment.
I then, contrary to the story he keeps giving on TV, found it near on impossible to get to talk to him about this problem
Eventually I did get to meet him and he had nothing to say. No idea what to do. It took my boss Maria Eagle to explain to him that as he was leader he could re appoint me if that was what he wanted.
I then worked hard for him on his Arts policy, loyally didn't go to the press about the above, got stuck in and worked. And yes, I enjoyed the role, it is one of my dream jobs in parliament and I believe I did Corbyn and the Labour Party a great service, as millions of people work in the arts and culture sectors and they valued being involved in policy-making. So it was never my intention to resign.
However, I kept hearing from other colleagues on the front bench just how difficult or impossible it was to get a decision out of him on important policy issues - the very thing Corbyn is supposed to be good on. I also noticed that the policy making process through the National Policy Forum was being slowed down by lack of decisions from Corbyn's office.
But then he was missing in action during the EU referendum, including going on a week's holiday three weeks before the day. I found that unforgivable. I had re-started campaigning in this campaign, phone-canvassing to conserve my energy, and kept hearing Labour voters saying 'but your leader wants out, doesn't he?' His team didn't send anyone to the EU Campaign meetings in Westminster and his lack of enthusiasm showed.
On the day after the referendum he asked for an early Brexit. My constituents want exactly the opposite and were telling me so in their hundreds, and voted 85% to remain.
That was the tipping point for me - it is not allowed to remain on the front bench whilst taking an opposing view to the leader in something so important.
I therefore had to resign.
The reason I then voted no confidence in him as leader is because I have no confidence in him as leader. See above. Plus I had found out from other front bench women how unwilling and unable Corbyn is to communicate with, listen to or work with anyone outside his narrow group.
Since then he has stated publicly that he isn't prioritizing winning elections. How can I support a Labour leader who doesn't want to form a Labour government above everything? When working people, the old, the young, the poor, the country, need a Labour government above everything?
I want a Labour government more than anything, because that is how we change the world and how we help millions of people, just as the 1997-2010 Labour government helped millions of people, my own family included.
I profoundly wished I never had to say all this publicly, but people keep asking, and I believe they have a right to know the truth about what Corbyn's leadership is like.
We cannot win general elections with a leader who is unable and unwilling to learn how to communicate with, listen to and persuade people with whom he doesn't already agree - we need to convince swing voters who voted Tory last year in Southern seats to vote Labour next time and we need Labour voters in Wales and the North to continue to vote Labour - without this we can't win a general election.
all that is what's at stake. Not having a Labour government again is unbearable. I will do anything I can to help to ensure this. It's the constitutional duty of all Labour MPs, especially the leader, to try to secure a better life for working class people through parliamentary means. And that's what I will continue to do.
I hope that's clear.

Offline mercury

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #470 on: July 17, 2016, 11:42:03 PM »
JC will have the last laugh whilst all the jokers around him are havng perpetual apoplectic fits

Tough isnt it?



He is remaing true to what labour party actually means after blair and spawns destroyed it and showng up all the traitors and the ttitle tattlers, good job, what more can one ask for? And if he doesnt get elected as new Pm in 2020 who cares? Job will be done to teach westminster what they are actually there for

Meanwhile eagle can and wll take a runnng jump, theres no place for snakes

 @)(++(*
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 02:09:11 AM by mercury »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #471 on: July 18, 2016, 10:17:57 AM »
Only one person has retained their dignity in all this and that's Corbyn. He hasn't publicly criticised any of his MP's as far as I know. He hasn't resorted to whingeing on Facebook. He hasn't ignored the wishes of the Party members or of constituency members.

The MP's seem to have been phased by his leadership style; collegiate and less confrontational, but he stated his intention at the beginning.

Liz Kendall identified the problem clearly after losing the Leadership contest;

No one has a monopoly on being led by their conscience. But modernisers must be honest with ourselves: many people who’ve joined our party in recent months do not believe we are offering change and some of them doubt our principles altogether. This is partly because too often in the past we’ve come across as technocratic and managerial.

“We’ve allowed ourselves to be defined as purely pragmatic – concerned with winning elections alone, rather than winning for a purpose – thereby ceding the mantle of principle to the far left.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/10/jeremy-corbyn-confident-labour-will-unite-around-him-if-he-wins

Rather than absorbing Kendall's [true] opinion, the MP's proceeded to prove her right. They have demonstrated yet again their lack of principles and their focus on winning elections at all costs.

Corbyn's critics outside the Party also concentrate on his perceived inability to win a general election. Well, no-one expected him to win the leadership election so who knows?



No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #472 on: July 18, 2016, 12:39:00 PM »
Only one person has retained their dignity in all this and that's Corbyn. He hasn't publicly criticised any of his MP's as far as I know. He hasn't resorted to whingeing on Facebook. He hasn't ignored the wishes of the Party members or of constituency members.

The MP's seem to have been phased by his leadership style; collegiate and less confrontational, but he stated his intention at the beginning.

Liz Kendall identified the problem clearly after losing the Leadership contest;

No one has a monopoly on being led by their conscience. But modernisers must be honest with ourselves: many people who’ve joined our party in recent months do not believe we are offering change and some of them doubt our principles altogether. This is partly because too often in the past we’ve come across as technocratic and managerial.

“We’ve allowed ourselves to be defined as purely pragmatic – concerned with winning elections alone, rather than winning for a purpose – thereby ceding the mantle of principle to the far left.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/10/jeremy-corbyn-confident-labour-will-unite-around-him-if-he-wins

Rather than absorbing Kendall's [true] opinion, the MP's proceeded to prove her right. They have demonstrated yet again their lack of principles and their focus on winning elections at all costs.

Corbyn's critics outside the Party also concentrate on his perceived inability to win a general election. Well, no-one expected him to win the leadership election so who knows?
If there was a snap election next month, how would you rate Labour's chances of winning? 

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #473 on: July 18, 2016, 01:16:27 PM »
If there was a snap election next month, how would you rate Labour's chances of winning?

That's right. Reduce a very complicated set of circumstances to a simplistic question. After all, winning at all costs is what politics is all about, isn't it?

Or is it? Maybe 172 MP's think so, but many Party members seem to disagree. Of course they have seen winning at all costs in action with Blair. He won but was he Labour? Some would say not, and that was the cost.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #474 on: July 18, 2016, 01:54:35 PM »
That's right. Reduce a very complicated set of circumstances to a simplistic question. After all, winning at all costs is what politics is all about, isn't it?

Or is it? Maybe 172 MP's think so, but many Party members seem to disagree. Of course they have seen winning at all costs in action with Blair. He won but was he Labour? Some would say not, and that was the cost.
If winning general elections wasn't what politics was all about there wouldn't be general elections. You and Corbyn and his followers are perfectly entitled to think they fulfil a useful function in society by politely challenging the opposition with questions in the House from Gail in Rotherham, but in my opinion the Opposition needs to be more effective than that.  It needs to have coherent policies, know what it stands for and have the majority of MPs supportive of those policies, be effectively and  robustly led by a leader who appeals to a wide cross-section of the electorate, who is able with his/her on-side colleagues to forcefully and intelligently challenge government decisions, with the ultimate goal of being in a position to put their own policies into practise ie: by being in Government.   

You may think it's perfectly acceptable for the Labour Party to simply become a socialist pressure group for various causes, but most people IMO don't see it that way. 

ETA: the fact that Blair had to take the Labour party to a more central position in order to win three terms should also give you a clue about the GBP's preferred politics - conservative with a small c, we've never been that keen on far-left politics at the end of the day....
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 01:57:16 PM by Alfie »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #475 on: July 18, 2016, 05:10:07 PM »
The GBP, on the whole don't understand politics. I'm sure a lot of people on tax credits voted Conservative only to find themselves attacked. What a shock that must have been. Those who understand politics know where Conservative loyalties lie in the end. Theresa May mentioned the 'Unionist' part of her party's name, but it's origins have sweet FA to do with uniting the nation.

People should be educated about the subject. They should know who created the NHS, who cleared all the slum houses away, who helped NATO to be formed, who granted independence to Empire countries. All Labour achievements when the country, reeling from WWII, moved sharply to the left.

For the short-term short-sighted politics is about winning elections whatever the cost. For others politics is about a fair society where everyone has a decent life. Unfortunately the GBP never remember the lessons of the past. Thatcher has been forgotten with her attacks on the poor, so the turkeys voted for Christmas again and got Osborne.

Now people have had a glimpse of something different at a time when, under attack from the Conservative Party, they had no strong Labour Party to defend them. The result was a surge of support for Corbyn. The reaction was attacks on him and his supporters by those who had failed to appeal to the electorate in the 2015 election. Their arrogance and lack of understanding is staggering.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #476 on: July 18, 2016, 06:20:54 PM »
The GBP, on the whole don't understand politics. I'm sure a lot of people on tax credits voted Conservative only to find themselves attacked. What a shock that must have been. Those who understand politics know where Conservative loyalties lie in the end. Theresa May mentioned the 'Unionist' part of her party's name, but it's origins have sweet FA to do with uniting the nation.

People should be educated about the subject. They should know who created the NHS, who cleared all the slum houses away, who helped NATO to be formed, who granted independence to Empire countries. All Labour achievements when the country, reeling from WWII, moved sharply to the left.

For the short-term short-sighted politics is about winning elections whatever the cost. For others politics is about a fair society where everyone has a decent life. Unfortunately the GBP never remember the lessons of the past. Thatcher has been forgotten with her attacks on the poor, so the turkeys voted for Christmas again and got Osborne.

Now people have had a glimpse of something different at a time when, under attack from the Conservative Party, they had no strong Labour Party to defend them. The result was a surge of support for Corbyn. The reaction was attacks on him and his supporters by those who had failed to appeal to the electorate in the 2015 election. Their arrogance and lack of understanding is staggering.
You seem to be suggesting that the GBP is as thick as two short planks and more forgetful than goldfish.    &%+((£  Maybe it explains why the majority voted for Brexit....but I digress.... 8(0(*

I notice you bemoaning the lack of a strong Labour Party in the face of Tory attack, well isn't that what I have been saying all along?!  Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party is currently as weakened and ineffectual as it's possible for a political party to be, and yet you and half a million other Corbynistas seem to think he's some sort of saviour.  It's astounding, but then there's nowt so queer as (some) folk.   


Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #477 on: July 18, 2016, 07:02:10 PM »
It's come to something when around a third of those who identify as Labour voters think that a Tory would make a better PM than the current Labour leader and less than half think he'd do a better job!  What does Jeremy have to do to show core Labour voters that he's got what it takes?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-comres-poll-labour-tories-prime-minister-who-would-be-better-voters-a7141171.html

Offline G-Unit

Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #478 on: July 18, 2016, 08:20:48 PM »
You seem to be suggesting that the GBP is as thick as two short planks and more forgetful than goldfish.    &%+((£  Maybe it explains why the majority voted for Brexit....but I digress.... 8(0(*

I notice you bemoaning the lack of a strong Labour Party in the face of Tory attack, well isn't that what I have been saying all along?!  Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party is currently as weakened and ineffectual as it's possible for a political party to be, and yet you and half a million other Corbynistas seem to think he's some sort of saviour.  It's astounding, but then there's nowt so queer as (some) folk.

People aren't thick, they vote based on experience and what the politicians and the media say. They have insufficient information, that's all.

It was Milliband's Labour PLP which was weak in the face of the attacks. The ones who have caused all the recent trouble. The ones who are now saying they know how to do it this time. Really?
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
« Reply #479 on: July 18, 2016, 09:49:18 PM »
People aren't thick, they vote based on experience and what the politicians and the media say. They have insufficient information, that's all.

It was Milliband's Labour PLP which was weak in the face of the attacks. The ones who have caused all the recent trouble. The ones who are now saying they know how to do it this time. Really?
If you assert that Labour was weak under Miliband (ancient history now, bearing in mind a week is a long time in politics), what do you think of its position now under Corbyn?  Stronger?   if Corbyn really is the best and only man for the job of leader, then I'm afraid IMO Labour is truly doomed.