Julie Mugford 'telling' Susan Battersby

[Holly Goodhead]

I bolted this on the end of SB's WS's but it doesn't flag up so its here:

Something I picked up from CAL's book:  SB claims JM told her on 26th/27th Aug about JB's involvement with the murders (at that time a mercenary). 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=529.0;attach=1663

On 29th Aug a party was held at SB/JM's home to celebrate JM's 21st.  During the party SB "jokingly" gestured to put cream on JB's neck as he was sorting out JM's birthday cake out:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=530.0;attach=1671

Hmmm so JM tells SB JB had a direct hand in murdering his entire immediate family and 2/3 days later SB wants to joke around with JB.  Had I been SB I'm pretty damn certain I wouldn't have wanted JB anywhere near me 


50

[Myster]

She probably had one over the eight and was befuddled, like all wimmin are at parties. 

[Anna]

I bolted this on the end of SB's WS's but it doesn't flag up so its here:

Something I picked up from CAL's book:  SB claims JM told her on 26th/27th Aug about JB's involvement with the murders (at that time a mercenary). 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=529.0;attach=1663

On 29th Aug a party was held at SB/JM's home to celebrate JM's 21st.  During the party SB "jokingly" gestured to put cream on JB's neck as he was sorting out JM's birthday cake out:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=530.0;attach=1671

Hmmm so JM tells SB JB had a direct hand in murdering his entire immediate family and 2/3 days later SB wants to joke around with JB.  Had I been SB I'm pretty damn certain I wouldn't have wanted JB anywhere near me

She either didn't believe Julie or was very stupid. Who approaches a murderer in such a manner? Is this the same friend who went on a spending spree when they (innocently!) reported a cheque book missing/stolen? Nice folk! Good at stories and plotting though.

[Holly Goodhead]

She probably had one over the eight and was befuddled, like all wimmin are at parties. 

And/or swooning over JB's animal magnetism...

...JB roaring around in his silver Vauxhall Astra GT with his dyed hair, sunbed tan and Hugo Boss suit...  &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

She either didn't believe Julie or was very stupid. Who approaches a murderer in such a manner? Is this the same friend who went on a spending spree when they (innocently!) reported a cheque book missing/stolen? Nice folk! Good at stories and plotting though.

Or JM hadn't told her at that point bearing in mind there was probably nothing to tell and SB's WS is dated 10th Sept!

[Anna]

Or JM hadn't told her at that point bearing in mind there was probably nothing to tell and SB's WS is dated 10th Sept!

That seems the most likely reason for being so at ease, with JB.

I have known people to run around chasing each other with shaving foam at parties, but I doubt that would be the case ,if they thought for one moment they were in the presence of a murderer.
You are probably right there, Holly. SB hadn’t been told at all and was quite at ease in the company of JB and wanted his attention.

[Myster]

And/or swooning over JB's animal magnetism...

...JB roaring around in his silver Vauxhall Astra GT with his dyed hair, sunbed tan and Hugo Boss suit...  &%+((£

Just think if he'd got his maulers on a £45,000 bird-pulling Porsche 911!     (and before you correct me... no, it wasn't a kit-car)... AE would have turned purple!

That Bob Miller comment at the cottage pre-funeral tickled me... when JB opened his new jacket, pointed to the Hugo Boss logo and exclaimed -

"See this... I'm the BOSS!!!"

[anglolawyer]

Why would Mugford make up her story about telling SB?

[Holly Goodhead]

Why would Mugford make up her story about telling SB?

JM and SB were training to become teachers.  They both also committed fraud using a cheque book and had these charges dropped.  Had the charges not been dropped I believe it would have impacted negatively on their chosen career.  DS Jones is on record as praying for something to turn up to nail JB and hey ho his prayers were answered...JM and SB and the silencer/blood.  I can go along with one dodgy cop and the rellies conspiring on the basis they believed JB guilty ie Noble Cause Corruption with JM and SB put under pressure to 'cooperate'.  What I cant go along with is EP hiding or forgetting a call from NB; EP shooting SC etc, etc.

Why would SB want to joke around with JB squeezing cream (dairy) on his neck if she thought he was  responsible for arranging to have his entire immediate family wiped out including two sleeping 6 year old children?  99.9% of women on the planet wouldn't want to be anywhere near such a guy let alone joke around with him in a physical way!

[anglolawyer]

JM and SB were training to become teachers.  They both also committed fraud using a cheque book and had these charges dropped.  Had the charges not been dropped I believe it would have impacted negatively on their chosen career.  DS Jones is on record as praying for something to turn up to nail JB and hey ho his prayers were answered...JM and SB and the silencer/blood.  I can go along with one dodgy cop and the rellies conspiring on the basis they believed JB guilty ie Noble Cause Corruption with JM and SB put under pressure to 'cooperate'.  What I cant go along with is EP hiding or forgetting a call from NB; EP shooting SC etc, etc.

Why would SB want to joke around with JB squeezing cream (dairy) on his neck if she thought he was  responsible for arranging to have his entire immediate family wiped out including two sleeping 6 year old children?  99.9% of women on the planet wouldn't want to be anywhere near such a guy let alone joke around with him in a physical way!

It's so weird it must be true.   Your post does not explain why she told this lie.   She also claimed she told another female friend before telling a male person before going to the cops.   Tell you what her problem was:  nothing to do with what her unconcious or concious minds thought and not only to do with being passed over - this fraudster, actress and thief was (rightly) worried about her own complicity for murder and had to take a huge risk in talking to the cops.

What did Sue Battersby say about when she was told?

[puglove]

It's so weird it must be true.   Your post does not explain why she told this lie.   She also claimed she told another female friend before telling a male person before going to the cops.   Tell you what her problem was:  nothing to do with what her unconcious or concious minds thought and not only to do with being passed over - this fraudster, actress and thief was (rightly) worried about her own complicity for murder and had to take a huge risk in talking to the cops.

What did Sue Battersby say about when she was told?

Just as happened with Sheila, some people want to invest Julie with super-human powers. Apparently, Julie was hard-bitten, duplicitious, bitter, vengeful.

I just think that Julie was young, misled, trapped, confused and frightened. And dragged along with Bamber's loony, dangerous pipe dreams.

And don't ever forget, Bamber asked Sheila (for the first time EVER) when she and the boys would next be at the farm. For Bamber, all the pieces fell into place, it was shit or bust.

Why did Bamber call Julie twice, that night? Once for bragging reassurance, then for an alibi to cover his sorry, murdering arse.

[Holly Goodhead]

It's so weird it must be true.   Your post does not explain why she told this lie.   She also claimed she told another female friend before telling a male person before going to the cops.   Tell you what her problem was:  nothing to do with what her unconcious or concious minds thought and not only to do with being passed over - this fraudster, actress and thief was (rightly) worried about her own complicity for murder and had to take a huge risk in talking to the cops.

What did Sue Battersby say about when she was told?

Did DS Jones contact JM on some pretence prior to anyone being told anything?

There are numerous reasons for lying:

- Threat of very serious criminal charges eg perverting the course of justice
- Threat of criminal charges re cheque book fraud, OCP break-in and cannabis dealing which would have impacted her chances of joining the teaching profession
-  Angry over JB ending the relationship
- 25k deal with NoW

She doesn't appear to have received any legal representation re her police interviews only re the NoW deal?  According to CAL's book her parents divorced when she was 10 yoa.  No male figure was present at trial only her mother.  Where was her birth father or step-father?  I feel uncomfortable about a young, just 21 yoa, female mid 80's in EP's male dominated oh so capable hands without any independent legal representation and no male figure around eg father.

[anglolawyer]

Did DS Jones contact JM on some pretence prior to anyone being told anything?

There are numerous reasons for lying:

- Threat of very serious criminal charges eg perverting the course of justice
- Threat of criminal charges re cheque book fraud, OCP break-in and cannabis dealing which would have impacted her chances of joining the teaching profession
-  Angry over JB ending the relationship
- 25k deal with NoW

She doesn't appear to have received any legal representation re her police interviews only re the NoW deal?  According to CAL's book her parents divorced when she was 10 yoa.  No male figure was present at trial only her mother.  Where was her birth father or step-father?  I feel uncomfortable about a young, just 21 yoa, female mid 80's in EP's male dominated oh so capable hands without any independent legal representation and no male figure around eg father.

You aren't getting it.   I am not asking why she framed Bamber.   I'm asking why she might have lied about when she told Battersby.

ETA it's interesting that she had no legal advice at interview and also that her witness statement is not recorded as having been made under caution.   She committed the extremely serious offence of concealing Bamber's offences, at least, and may well have been liable as an accessory to them as well.   I suspect some of the PII material relates to the deal she got in return for her testimony.

And I bet Battersby's account is true. If we had her trial evidence we could settle it.

[Holly Goodhead]

You aren't getting it.   I am not asking why she framed Bamber.   I'm asking why she might have lied about when she told Battersby.

Or perhaps you aren't making yourself clear  &%+((£  Either way please keep your hair on  Coz DS Jones coached JM and SB with a story and timeline and they messed up.

Can you explain please why SB states in her WS of 10th September that she did not see JM or JB for a couple of weeks after the tragedy and then in her WS of 23rd September states JM and JB stayed overnight at the house she shared with JM whilst she was living there on 11th August?   She also states that when the police collected JM on 7th Aug she asked the police if JB's parents were dead and they confirmed yes.  Strange that the police would commit to divulging that sort of info to SB when its questionable whether the police surgeon had certified their deaths and the relatives were told the police were unable to comment at that time?

SB's WS states she didn't see JM or JB for a couple of weeks post tragedy:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=529.0;attach=1661

SB's WS states JM and JB spent the night of 11th Aug at her home whilst she was there

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=530.0;attach=1671

SB's WS confirms she asked the police to confirm JB's parents were dead and they confirmed yes

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=530.0;attach=1669

ETA it's interesting that she had no legal advice at interview and also that her witness statement is not recorded as having been made under caution.   She committed the extremely serious offence of concealing Bamber's offences, at least, and may well have been liable as an accessory to them as well.   I suspect some of the PII material relates to the deal she got in return for her testimony.

JM withheld the fact she claimed JB told her on 7th Aug he arranged for MM to carry out the murders which EP were unable to substantiate.

And I bet Battersby's account is true. If we had her trial evidence we could settle it.

Why do you bet SB's account is true?  How would her trial evidence settle it?

[anglolawyer]

snip
Why do you bet SB's account is true?  How would her trial evidence settle it?

Because when you lie you don't tell falsifiable lies that would destroy your own credibility, so JM would not say she told SB unless she knew SB would back her up and the most likely reason why SB would back her up would be if she did tell SB.   Of course, if you are suggesting that SB, with nothing at all to gain, lied to help JM, well, fine but, if she did, she was taking an enormous risk.

If we had her trial evidence we would know whether Rivlin or Lawson cross examined her about when JM told her.   If they could tease it out of her that JM hadn't then that would undermine the credibility of the key prosecution witness.

I am not ignoring the rest of your post but have to read the material.   Anyway, I see you have Stan Jones conspiring with JM and SB to frame Bamber.   Fair dinkum.   The more the merrier as far as a good ole CT goes, eh?