Would a Portuguese Crimewatch have helped find Madeleine McCann?

[pathfinder73]

Kelly’s 282 788 631
Rua da Calheta, 4

English bar with selection of draught beers & cider showing live sports on large TVs, sun terrace and ‘Fred’s Fun Quiz’ every Monday and Friday at 21.00. Free Wi-Fi



Watching the game ... In an Irish pub

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kellys-Bar-Praia-Da-Luz/437469679616723

You normally pay when you order your round of drinks in English/Irish pubs.

9.39 13.75 euros

[ShiningInLuz]

@Shining. In Kellys or similar is it pay for drinks when you get them or tab and pay when you leave?

Regulars normally run tabs, at least in most of the bars.

If the bar staff were not familiar with the customer, it would be usual to request the money when the drinks are served.

Martin Smith might have been in Kelly's often enough to merit a tab, but then the staff would probably have remembered him.  It was Peter's first visit, so I doubt if he would have been able to run a tab.

[pegasus]

If they pay for drinks when they order them, then the 9:39pm transaction is theirs.
9.27pm pay bill at Dolphin.
9.39pm arrive Kellys and pay for drinks, then sit down and drink them.

But if they pay for drinks on tab when they leave Kellys, then the 9.39pm transaction is IMO too early to be them.

[Carana]

The envelope shaped button on the bottom of the YouTube video says it is subtitles/CC.  I have only checked a very small amount at the beginning of the intro, but it appears to be a 100% match for the Portuguese spoken (in Portuguese, of course).

ETA.  Nope, it seems to be some automatic guessing software that copses on Gerry and Kate.

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that... but it's automatic gibberish, as you say.

[pathfinder73]

If they pay for drinks when they order them, then the 9:39pm transaction is theirs.
9.27pm pay bill at Dolphin.
9.39pm arrive Kellys and pay for drinks, then sit down and drink them.

But if they pay for drinks on tab when they leave Kellys, then the 9.39pm transaction is IMO too early to be them.

The evidence suggests 9:39 for a group of 9 (5 kids) so they paid when they bought their drinks. They only had one and leave around 20 minutes later at 10pm.

[misty]

Why didn't the PJ, at any stage, put out an appeal for people who were in the vicinity of Kelly's Bar/LuzDoc that night between 9.30 & 10.30 to come forward?

[G-Unit]

Why didn't the PJ, at any stage, put out an appeal for people who were in the vicinity of Kelly's Bar/LuzDoc that night between 9.30 & 10.30 to come forward?

Was it usual for the PJ to put out appeals?

[Carana]

Why didn't the PJ, at any stage, put out an appeal for people who were in the vicinity of Kelly's Bar/LuzDoc that night between 9.30 & 10.30 to come forward?

Good point, Misty. The GNR did go around asking if anyone had seen anything suspicious, and some house searches for the "missing minor", but it seems to have ended there.

[misty]

Was it usual for the PJ to put out appeals?

No. The GNR/PSP do not make public appeals & the PJ only make appeals for "wanted" criminals on their website.
However, the PJ did/do not seem adverse to using the media to publicly present allegations and "evidence " against known suspects in a case.
This case was huge for the PJ. They needed all the help they could get. They had information about a 2nd man seen with a child in the right location at the right time. Surely it was in everyone's interests to find this man & rule him in or out of proceedings asap. Instead - zilch. It's almost as though someone didn't want to solve the case.......

[pegasus]

No. The GNR/PSP do not make public appeals & the PJ only make appeals for "wanted" criminals on their website.
However, the PJ did/do not seem adverse to using the media to publicly present allegations and "evidence " against known suspects in a case.
This case was huge for the PJ. They needed all the help they could get. They had information about a 2nd man seen with a child in the right location at the right time. Surely it was in everyone's interests to find this man & rule him in or out of proceedings asap. Instead - zilch. It's almost as though someone didn't want to solve the case.......

It is obvious that Mr Amaral did, and still does, very much want to solve the case.
Why on earth would he not want to solve it?
A very active investigation of the Smith sighting (including property searches just south of the sighting, and plans to fly witnesses to Portugal again) was abruptly halted by whoever engineered Mr Amaral's removal on the morning of October 2nd 2007.
MFLNSUL for many years since the case was shelved had the opportunity to publish a portuguese language appeal about smithman - but can anyone post a link to it?

[pegasus]

Imagine if a portuguese child disappeared in the UK.
And there was a big need to identify a person in a sighting.
And the appeal was broadcast in Portuguese language only and in Portugal only.
It would be ridiculous.

[misty]

It is obvious that Mr Amaral did, and still does, very much want to solve the case.
Why on earth would he not want to solve it?
A very active investigation of the Smith sighting (including property searches just south of the sighting, and plans to fly witnesses to Portugal again) was abruptly halted by whoever engineered Mr Amaral's removal on the morning of October 2nd 2007.
MFLNSUL for many years since the case was shelved had the opportunity to publish a portuguese language appeal about smithman - but can anyone post a link to it?

If Amaral & Co really wanted to solve the case, why were they more interested in discussing the theory that Madeleine was dead & where she could be buried rather than thoroughly investigating the very important sighting of this 2nd man seen carrying a young girl in the vicinity on the night in question?
There are NO additional statements in the files between May & October when GA was removed of any police asking the bar owners etc in the immediate vicinity of Smithman sighting if they remember who was in their premises that night. The emphasis was always on what happened after Madeleine went missing, not what was happening before.

[pegasus]

If Amaral & Co really wanted to solve the case, why were they more interested in discussing the theory that Madeleine was dead & where she could be buried rather than thoroughly investigating the very important sighting of this 2nd man seen carrying a young girl in the vicinity on the night in question?
There are NO additional statements in the files between May & October when GA was removed of any police asking the bar owners etc in the immediate vicinity of Smithman sighting if they remember who was in their premises that night. The emphasis was always on what happened after Madeleine went missing, not what was happening before.

Amaral IMO believed the time of the sighting stated by the 3 Irish witnesses on 26 May IMO. Later Rebelo double-checked the time by asking at Dolphin and Kellys for till and payment receipts.
Just before 2nd Oct Amaral was investigating this sighting in a hypothetical non-abduction scenario, and so did years later (partly at least) SY.
 

[misty]

Amaral IMO believed the time of the sighting stated by the 3 Irish witnesses on 26 May IMO. Later Rebelo double-checked the time by asking at Dolphin and Kellys for till and payment receipts.
Just before 2nd Oct Amaral was investigating this sighting in a hypothetical non-abduction scenario, and so did years later (partly at least) SY.
 

Was Amaral working on the 9.30 or 10pm time provided by the 3 members of the  Smith family prior to him being removed?

[pegasus]

Was Amaral working on the 9.30 or 10pm time provided by the 3 members of the  Smith family prior to him being removed?

IMO, the sighting time as stated in the three 26 May statements, 9.50pm to 10pm if I remember