Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?

[Miss Taken Identity]

I'm not interested in third-hand interpretations from when the parents and their PR man went to Chicago.
Look at the SY photo of innocent crecheman clothing - do you agree that is a blanket?

The point I am making is Tannerman was promoted as the abductor by JT. she could not identify the child or its clothing. And as Shiney points out he is not coming from a  creché, by the direction he was walking. A blanket, but no shoes, socks etc? seriously?

[ShiningInLuz]

How many children were left in the creche that night?  How many were young girls? How would you expect them to get from the creche to their holiday accomodation?  How do we even know that the child in Smithman's arms had been in the creche at all?  just because JT wore a thick fleece does that mean everyone was?  What actually WAS the temperature that evening.?  There should be records,,,

IIRC, Redwood said 8 families with 11 children in the crèche, with no further breakdown.

[ShiningInLuz]

First, you are correct that he was not walking directly away from MW creche. I suggest maybe he had walked back from creche with another parent as far as that other parent's building, then headed to his own building.

Second - are there any MW buildings in the direction JT saw him walking, beyond block 6? The answer is yes - if you want I will list them.

There are such buildings.  None of them make sense is the point.  The chappie has done a large loop to get back nearly to where he started.

Jane Tanner in her rogatory said it did not make sense that he was coming from the crèche, but it did if he was heading to the crèche.

[Alfred R Jones]

I'm astounded that people are so hung up on the "no shoes and socks" thing.  Who risks waking their child up to put shoes and socks on it when it is only being carried outside for a short distance?

[pegasus]

@ShiningInLuz From your post -"The normal language in Luz is English.  The Dutch, Germans and English use, and local Portuguese folks use it."
IMO there are many people living in PDL who speak portuguese and don't speak english.
Many of the GNR officers attending did not speak english - this is easy to prove.
And for example when you go in the laundrette I think you will hear the normal language is portuguese.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I'm astounded that people are so hung up on the "no shoes and socks" thing.  Who risks waking their child up to put shoes and socks on it when it is only being carried outside for a short distance?

Astounded really?

I clothed my sleeping children many times. nothing bad happened to them. The fact is many Crechés insist on children wearing feet covering for health and safety and hygiene reasons, makes this a very important point. Why would putting shoes or socks on a child on a cold night not be expected?


To Whoever-Thank you for deleting my post-- pathetic really. There was nothing nasty in it.

[pegasus]

There are such buildings.  None of the make sense is the point.  The chappie has done a large loop to get back nearly to where he started.

Jane Tanner in her rogatory said it did not make sense that he was coming from the crèche, but it did if he was heading to the crèche.

I already agreed the man was not walking directly away from the MW creche.
But on your second point, which is the direction JT saw the man walking towards - there were several buildings in that direction containing MW/OC accomodation - about 7 buildings near the Milenium, and other  buildings on the way to Milenium (on the south side of Rua Ramalhete).
We already have a well-documented example of another tourist walking a circuitous route to get a child to sleep, I don't see why people insist there is some rule saying all parents must walk directly from A to B.

[Alfred R Jones]

Astounded really?

I clothed my sleeping children many times. nothing bad happened to them. The fact is many Crechés insist on children wearing feet covering for health and safety and hygiene reasons, makes this a very important point. Why would putting shoes or socks on a child on a cold night not be expected?


To Whoever-Thank you for deleting my post-- pathetic really. There was nothing nasty in it.

I'm not suggesting anything BAD would happen to them, just that there's not much joy to be had carrying a sleepy crying child through town, hence if I was the parent I would not bother putting shoes and socks on my kid if I was carrying him or her asleep for a short distance outdoors.  The warmth of my own body would prevent the child from getting too uncomfortably cold - feet are very often uncovered at night anyway if you have a restless child that kicks the covers off like mine do - it really is no big deal. 

[Miss Taken Identity]

I'm not suggesting anything BAD would happen to them, just that there's not much joy to be had carrying a sleepy crying child through town, hence if I was the parent I would not bother putting shoes and socks on my kid if I was carrying him or her asleep for a short distance outdoors.  The warmth of my own body would prevent the child from getting too uncomfortably cold - feet are very often uncovered at night anyway if you have a restless child that kicks the covers off like mine do - it really is no big deal.

Yes , I get what you're saying Alfie. But The point I was making is there is no reason for them to have their soft shoes ,socks, sandles with socks removed at all.  Due to heath and safety and hygeine?
 Anyway have a good one... Im off out.

[Alfred R Jones]

Yes , I get what you're saying Alfie. But The point I was making is there is no reason for them to have their soft shoes ,socks, sandles with socks removed at all.  Due to heath and safety and hygeine?
 Anyway have a good one... Im off out.

Personally I don't think there's anything safe or hygienic about putting a child in a bed or cot with its shoes on.  But to settle this one way or another we would need to know what the common practice was in the crèche in PdL in 2007 - anyone here used it?

[G-Unit]

I already agreed the man was not walking directly away from the MW creche.
But on your second point, which is the direction JT saw the man walking towards - there were several buildings in that direction containing MW/OC accomodation - about 7 buildings near the Milenium, and other  buildings on the way to Milenium (on the south side of Rua Ramalhete).
We already have a well-documented example of another tourist walking a circuitous route to get a child to sleep, I don't see why people insist there is some rule saying all parents must walk directly from A to B.

Wheeling a child about in a buggy is one thing. Carrying a child on a chilly night on outstretched arms as Tannerman did is another thing. Very difficult over short distances, painful over a long distance.

[ShiningInLuz]

@ShiningInLuz From your post -"The normal language in Luz is English.  The Dutch, Germans and English use, and local Portuguese folks use it."
IMO there are many people living in PDL who speak portuguese and don't speak english.
Many of the GNR officers attending did not speak english - this is easy to prove.
And for example when you go in the laundrette I think you will hear the normal language is portuguese.

There isn't a permanent GNR presence in Luz.  The nearest GNR station is Lagos.

When I went to gaze at SY investigating the mound, the bored GNR officer who struck up a conversation with me spoke to me only in English.

When I passed the primary school (near the Smithman sighting) a young boy struck up a conversation with me, in good English with a Portuguese accent.

There are typically Portuguese facilities in Luz - Fernando's, the café on Rua Direita, the supermarket on the beach road.  Obviously Portuguese people can and do speak Portuguese.  However, by far the dominant language spoken in Luz is English, whether in pubs, restaurants, banks, shops etc., to the extent that it is rare to hear Portuguese spoken.

The main exception is August each year, when there is a large influx of tourists from Portugal.  Then the dominant language heard when one is out and about is Portuguese.

[ShiningInLuz]

I already agreed the man was not walking directly away from the MW creche.
But on your second point, which is the direction JT saw the man walking towards - there were several buildings in that direction containing MW/OC accomodation - about 7 buildings near the Milenium, and other  buildings on the way to Milenium (on the south side of Rua Ramalhete).
We already have a well-documented example of another tourist walking a circuitous route to get a child to sleep, I don't see why people insist there is some rule saying all parents must walk directly from A to B.

I cannot rule out that Crècheman had taken a long, circuitous route, with a lightly-dressed child, for whatever reason.  Merely that it appears to be highly unlikely.

Jeremy Wilkins.  Do we have any reason to believe that his child was lightly dressed?  I would have thought wrapped up warm would be a better way to get a child to sleep.

[pegasus]

There isn't a permanent GNR presence in Luz.  The nearest GNR station is Lagos.

When I went to gaze at SY investigating the mound, the bored GNR officer who struck up a conversation with me spoke to me only in English.

When I passed the primary school (near the Smithman sighting) a young boy struck up a conversation with me, in good English with a Portuguese accent.

There are typically Portuguese facilities in Luz - Fernando's, the café on Rua Direita, the supermarket on the beach road.  Obviously Portuguese people can and do speak Portuguese.  However, by far the dominant language spoken in Luz is English, whether in pubs, restaurants, banks, shops etc., to the extent that it is rare to hear Portuguese spoken.

The main exception is August each year, when there is a large influx of tourists from Portugal.  Then the dominant language heard when one is out and about is Portuguese.

If english is the normal language and it is rare to hear portuguese spoken, I am surprised that the PJ chose to take all statements wherever possible in portuguese.
Let's ask some GNR officers who although they may live some killometers from PDL, are the officers who frequently get sent to PDL whenever there is a crime.
Obviously I have translated into english. The commander of the Lagos GNR station which serves PDL:
"he did not speak to her as he does not speak English well"

[G-Unit]

If english is the normal language and it is rare to hear portuguese spoken, I am surprised that the PJ chose to take all statements wherever possible in portuguese.
Let's ask some GNR officers who although they may live some killometers from PDL, are the officers who frequently get sent to PDL whenever there is a crime.
Obviously I have translated into english. The commander of the Lagos GNR station which serves PDL:
"he did not speak to her as he does not speak English well"

The guy didn't speak Engish well, which suggests he spoke some English.Of course speaking and understanding are two different things. I lived in Germany for five years and they understood a lot of Engish, but preferred mostly not to speak it.