Author Topic: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?  (Read 77841 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #135 on: September 13, 2015, 04:03:39 PM »
@ShiningInLuz
If (forgive me if I'm wrong) you don't speak and understand spoken portuguese, then it is inevitable that every conversation you have had in PDL must have been in English. So if you take as a sample all the people you have conversed with, you will get the apparent result that 100% of people there speak english. Have you never encountered a person there who doesn't speak english? 

The real question is - are you sure that every portuguese person living in PDL, and every portuguese person holidaying in PDL, would understand a greeting in english in the street from a stranger like "aah, is she asleep?"
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 04:10:35 PM by pegasus »

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #136 on: September 13, 2015, 05:14:58 PM »
I'm astounded that people are so hung up on the "no shoes and socks" thing.  Who risks waking their child up to put shoes and socks on it when it is only being carried outside for a short distance?

Surely a child being taken to a night crèche would have socks at the very least and perhaps slippers/shoes on. Tanner certainly thought it was odd that the child she allegedly saw wasn't wearing any.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #137 on: September 13, 2015, 05:52:00 PM »
Surely a child being taken to a night crèche would have socks at the very least and perhaps slippers/shoes on. Tanner certainly thought it was odd that the child she allegedly saw wasn't wearing any.
Neither the child being carried by Smithman, nor the child being carried by Tannerman were being taken TO a crèche though were they?  Nor is there any law in the universe that states that children going to crèches always wear socks and / or shoes. 

Offline pegasus

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #138 on: September 13, 2015, 05:57:22 PM »
I'm astounded that people are so hung up on the "no shoes and socks" thing.  Who risks waking their child up to put shoes and socks on it when it is only being carried outside for a short distance?
A good post of.common sense.

The child's bare feet in smith sighting mean the child was asleep when picked up.

The child's bare feet and thin clothing in smith sighting mean that the child was being carried only a short distance.

So for example it could be a portuguese dad who has just finished work, picked up his sleeping daughter from a childsitting relative's place, and walked the short distance from there to home.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 06:00:01 PM by pegasus »

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2015, 06:36:26 PM »
If english is the normal language and it is rare to hear portuguese spoken, I am surprised that the PJ chose to take all statements wherever possible in portuguese.
Let's ask some GNR officers who although they may live some killometers from PDL, are the officers who frequently get sent to PDL whenever there is a crime.
Obviously I have translated into english. The commander of the Lagos GNR station which serves PDL:
"he did not speak to her as he does not speak English well"
The statements are in Portuguese for an obvious reason.  The requirement for translators is also obvious.

I don't know how frequently or infrequently GNR officers get sent to Luz.  I see them very infrequently, and as an aside, I feel much safer here than I did in England re crime rate, though that of course is purely my opinion.

When do the GNR get sent here?

1.  Many bars/restaurants are in mixed premises, of bar below and flats above.  Noise complaints from someone trying to sleep above obliges (mandatory) the GNR to turn up to investigate.  The method is a drive-past with windows open.  If they can hear the noise over the car engine, the establishment gets paid a visit.

Such complaints are frequent, ditto visits.  If the GNR come in wearing hats, it's official and sticky times.  If they come in with hats under their arms, you ask them if they want a water, and when they say yes, you serve them a white port.

I believe Kelly's got raided for running Bingo.  The law here says games of chance with prizes are not permitted.  Kelly's was supposedly offering biscuits as prizes.  The fines wiped out any profits from the night.

2.  The GNR set up a traffic stop at the Mirage, pull cars over and check documentation.  On the spot fines.

3.  The GNR send multiple officers to Luz every 3rd May.  I won't bore you with the minutiae.

4.  The only other event I can think of that regularly gets GNR officers is the Luz Triathlon around 25 April each year, but that was not running in 2007.

5.  Apart from a traffic fine, the one and only connection between our extended family and the GNR was when two GNR officers turned up on our property looking for an English woman (a previous tenant) who had a record of drink-driving, and who seemed to have inflicted yet more damage on some poor stranger's car.  Both officers spoke decent English, but as they were in search of an English woman, it makes sense to send English speakers.

I fully accept that a fair proportion of GNR officers around here do not speak English or find it difficult to speak English.
What's up, old man?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #140 on: September 13, 2015, 07:01:38 PM »
@ShiningInLuz
If (forgive me if I'm wrong) you don't speak and understand spoken portuguese, then it is inevitable that every conversation you have had in PDL must have been in English. So if you take as a sample all the people you have conversed with, you will get the apparent result that 100% of people there speak english. Have you never encountered a person there who doesn't speak english? 

The real question is - are you sure that every portuguese person living in PDL, and every portuguese person holidaying in PDL, would understand a greeting in english in the street from a stranger like "aah, is she asleep?"
This I think is a critical point.

I lived in Olhão for 3 months before moving to Luz.  Olhão is the largest fishing town on the Algarve.  Despite having a lively tourist trade, the town is intrinsically Portuguese, and the bulk of the tourists are Portuguese.  Lots of Germans, French and English, but still the majority were Portuguese.

I do not look Portuguese, but it was normal for people everywhere in Olhão to try Portuguese first, then go for English.  The ladies in the supermarket never bothered with this.  The would simply yak 10 to the dozen in Portuguese and I would smile and nod my head, and I loved it.

I'm not sure I like the idea of calling Luz "Little Britain", but it is dominated by Irish and English people, with Portuguese in the minority.

I have had roughly one conversation per year in Portuguese, with a Portuguese person, who spoke little or no English.  The issue is that they prefer to converse in their decent English rather than my poor heard/spoken Portuguese.

I am adding 3 more intrinsically Portuguese places to the list in Luz.  NECI is a major charity here handling children with learning disadvantages.  I would plump for the staff talking to the parents and children in Portuguese. 

Next, the Luz social club on Rua Direita is a place where I would expect Portuguese to be the dominant language. 

Third, my grandchild goes to a rather decent school just around the corner from his home.  From day 1, the staff talked to him only in Portuguese, and as under 5s are learning machines, he has done better with the language than any of us.  Mind you, he gets frustrated when we cannot keep up with him.  Plus, as the children at the school come from many countries, he is picking up Spanish, French etc.

"Aah, is she asleep?"  Whether this would be understood or not, I cannot say.  It certainly sounds nothing like the Portuguese equivalent.  I would question whether it happened, given that it is not mentioned in the original statements.

Who supposedly said this?  Is it Mary?
What's up, old man?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #141 on: September 13, 2015, 07:42:27 PM »
Neither the child being carried by Smithman, nor the child being carried by Tannerman were being taken TO a crèche though were they?  Nor is there any law in the universe that states that children going to crèches always wear socks and / or shoes.

What was it Tanner said about the parent carrying the child not being a very good parent because the child's feet weren't covered ? Logically it is more likely than not that any caring parent would, on a cold night, cover their child's feet going 'to' and but especially coming 'from' the night crèche. The fact that two parents allegedly didn't on that very night is odd to say the least.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #142 on: September 13, 2015, 08:27:42 PM »
What was it Tanner said about the parent carrying the child not being a very good parent because the child's feet weren't covered ? Logically it is more likely than not that any caring parent would, on a cold night, cover their child's feet going 'to' and but especially coming 'from' the night crèche. The fact that two parents allegedly didn't on that very night is odd to say the least.
In your and JT's opinion.  How charming that the pair of you have something in common - a shared concern for the welfare of the feet of small children being taken to and from night creche.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #143 on: September 13, 2015, 09:13:31 PM »
What was it Tanner said about the parent carrying the child not being a very good parent because the child's feet weren't covered ? Logically it is more likely than not that any caring parent would, on a cold night, cover their child's feet going 'to' and but especially coming 'from' the night crèche. The fact that two parents allegedly didn't on that very night is odd to say the least.

To be fair, Jane said;

‘Oh a bit of a bad parent like us, you know, that kid’s obviously being taken home’ or whatever. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

She said that because they used to carry their kids in a blanket and their feet would fall out and get cold too.

Of course the person she saw letting it's child's feet get cold hadn't left it's child alone and vomiting in their apartment like she did, so not quite such a bad parent.



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Offline misty

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #144 on: September 13, 2015, 09:22:07 PM »
To be fair, Jane said;

‘Oh a bit of a bad parent like us, you know, that kid’s obviously being taken home’ or whatever. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

She said that because they used to carry their kids in a blanket and their feet would fall out and get cold too.

Of course the person she saw letting it's child's feet get cold hadn't left it's child alone and vomiting in their apartment like she did, so not quite such a bad parent.

The person JT saw could quite possibly have been a child abductor/paedophile - but, hey, still not as bad a parent/person as any of the Tapas group.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #145 on: September 13, 2015, 09:41:38 PM »
The person JT saw could quite possibly have been a child abductor/paedophile - but, hey, still not as bad a parent/person as any of the Tapas group.

I have no opinion on whether or not the Tapas group were bad people. Given the fact that they said they left their children alone each evening they clearly weren't the best parents.
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Offline faithlilly

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #146 on: September 13, 2015, 11:06:14 PM »
To be fair, Jane said;

‘Oh a bit of a bad parent like us, you know, that kid’s obviously being taken home’ or whatever. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

She said that because they used to carry their kids in a blanket and their feet would fall out and get cold too.

Of course the person she saw letting it's child's feet get cold hadn't left it's child alone and vomiting in their apartment like she did, so not quite such a bad parent.

From the Panorama programme shown in November 2007 :

'JANE: Well I could see.. I could tell it was a child, and I could see the feet and... feet and the bottom of the pyjamas, and I just thought that child's not got any shoes on because you could see the feet, and it was quite a cold night in Portugal in May it's not actually that warm, and I'd got a big jumper on, and I can remember thinking oh that parent is not a particularly good parent, they've not wrapped them up.'
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 11:09:35 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #147 on: September 13, 2015, 11:10:57 PM »
In your and JT's opinion.  How charming that the pair of you have something in common - a shared concern for the welfare of the feet of small children being taken to and from night creche.

Absolutely and I've also got the same Habitat dining table as the McCanns. We're almost kindred spirits !
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #148 on: September 13, 2015, 11:19:08 PM »
Absolutely and I've also got the same Habitat dining table as the McCanns. We're almost kindred spirits !
How disturbing that you even know what sort of table the McCanns eat their dinners off at home...

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could Smithman be the key to Madeleine's disappearance?
« Reply #149 on: September 13, 2015, 11:38:52 PM »
How disturbing that you even know what sort of table the McCanns eat their dinners off at home...

If you invite the media into that most private of places, your home, it's not hard for those viewing to see what table you eat from Alfie dear.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?