Author Topic: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands  (Read 32716 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2015, 11:22:44 PM »
I like the spider web of lies cake:

http://websta.me/n/jeremybamber

 *&*%£
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline puglove

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2015, 08:18:41 AM »
I like the spider web of lies cake:

http://websta.me/n/jeremybamber

 *&*%£

"And here is Spotty, a Bake-Off supporter's Jack Russell, just back from the vet's after having her stomach pumped."
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2015, 11:27:28 AM »
"And here is Spotty, a Bake-Off supporter's Jack Russell, just back from the vet's after having her stomach pumped."

That patterned throw is enough to cause man or beast needing their stomach pumped  8)><(

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2015, 11:30:25 AM »
Report them to the RSPCA.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #79 on: October 01, 2015, 08:16:44 PM »
I visited a local gun shop earlier today to check out the Eley bullets.  I was unable to purchase them as I don't have a firearms cert but the very nice man in the shop opened a new box for me and allowed me to handle them and load them in a magazine.  I offered to pay for them but he said it was fine as they use them all the time for test firing.  This is what I discovered:

- The bullet head which is dark grey has a clear wax coating.  However this only came off when I rubbed the bullet quite firmly between my thumb and index finger.

- When I rubbed the copper coloured end nothing came off.  Probably as it didn't appear to be coated with anything.

- Nothing came off when I loaded the bullets into the magazine from the head or the copper coloured end.  The  bullets are loaded by pushing on the copper end. 

- Certainly no discolouration of any description.

- Loading the bullets in a mag was simply child's play.  There was nothing remotely complicated.  And I didn't break my nails! 

The above completely contradicts with what MF told the jury. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2015, 10:31:10 PM »
Were they Eley subsonic hollow-points, and not round-points such as Eley tenex, match or edge?

http://www.eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow

The shell casings are made of brass alloy not copper alone and therefore shouldn't be copper-coloured.

Did you ask him about the coating, ie. was it paraffin wax or beeswax and do they smell different when burning?

Most of the wax coating is on the lead bullet and within the shallow bands/grooves running round its circumference, rather than on the brass casing.  It's there to reduce the amount of lead deposited in the breech and bore of the rifle as the bullet is fired.

Was it a genuine Anschutz ten round magazine you loaded or a different one, because others might have lesser spring strengths?  The last bullets are supposed to be harder to load in an Anschutz magazine as the spring becomes more fully compressed.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 05:24:31 AM by Myster »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2015, 05:38:49 AM »
In your role as Miss Marple Mk.II, did you have a look at a Parker-Hale moderator, preferably an '84 model and ask the seller if any blood would be present going back several baffles as a result of drawback and/or backspatter if used in close contact with say, a dying rabbit or fox?

And also ask if a Parker-Hale (or any other make of .22 moderator) gets hot after firing just 25 rounds, not consecutively but with several seconds or even minutes between groups of shots?  I think you'll need to change your avatar message.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2015, 07:01:27 AM »
Were they Eley subsonic hollow-points, and not round-points such as Eley tenex, match or edge?

http://www.eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow

The shell casings are made of brass alloy not copper alone and therefore shouldn't be copper-coloured.

Did you ask him about the coating, ie. was it paraffin wax or beeswax and do they smell different when burning?

Most of the wax coating is on the lead bullet and within the shallow bands/grooves running round its circumference, rather than on the brass casing.  It's there to reduce the amount of lead deposited in the breech and bore of the rifle as the bullet is fired.

Was it a genuine Anschutz ten round magazine you loaded or a different one, because others might have lesser spring strengths?  The last bullets are supposed to be harder to load in an Anschutz magazine as the spring becomes more fully compressed.

Myster how many times have you displayed the green box with bunny for me?  Yes the bullets I inspected were Eley subsonic. 

I had it in my mind they would be loose in a cardboard box but the box is plastic and each bullet is slotted in a hole face down ie the head down and the brass head hangs over the top of each slot.  The box is much smaller than I imagined and contained 50.

As I was typing copper I was thinking reddish and I need yellowish.  Yes you're right the end is brass. 

I explained to the man my interest and how it came about ie beeswax v paraffin wax.  Wow he sounded just like you... he said maybe Eley changed the lubricant.  I told him I had confirmed with Eley they have always used paraffin wax and he seemed quite impressed by this  8(>((

I didn't ask about any smells. 

Yes the mag was for the rifle used at WHF. 

Why not check it for yourself. 
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 07:43:01 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2015, 07:23:22 AM »
In your role as Miss Marple Mk.II, did you have a look at a Parker-Hale moderator, preferably an '84 model and ask the seller if any blood would be present going back several baffles as a result of drawback and/or backspatter if used in close contact with say, a dying rabbit or fox?

And also ask if a Parker-Hale (or any other make of .22 moderator) gets hot after firing just 25 rounds, not consecutively but with several seconds or even minutes between groups of shots?  I think you'll need to change your avatar message.

No I didnt check out anything else.  He was very accommodating so I could call back.  Perhaps sub-consciously I wanted to engineer a reason to call back  8(0(*

According to Malcolm Fletcher and Dr Vanezis the silencer heats up after firing.  As far as I'm aware all silencers heat up when a bullet is fired through them?  Question is by how much and is it enough to destroy blood for serological analysis?  I guess to a large extent the heat generated is dependent on the bullet?  The following vid shows 390F but the firearm and bullet are clearly far more powerful than the rifle/ammo used at WHF:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tJ7heDIqXU
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #84 on: October 02, 2015, 07:37:57 AM »
Don't forget there was a reason EP stored the victims blood samples in the SoC fridge. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #85 on: October 02, 2015, 07:58:05 AM »
According to Malcolm Fletcher and Dr Vanezis the silencer heats up after firing.  As far as I'm aware all silencers heat up when a bullet is fired through them?  Question is by how much and is it enough to destroy blood for serological analysis?  I guess to a large extent the heat generated is dependent on the bullet?  The following vid shows 390F but the firearm and bullet are clearly far more powerful than the rifle/ammo used at WHF:

Someone in the US on al's IA forum said when they fired their .22 rifle around a hundred times the moderator never got warm!  And one of the experts here, maybe Fletcher, said the moderator only became slightly (touch) warm after firing just twenty or so bullets.

Why not check it for yourself.

The nearest gun shop is 20 miles away and as I haven't got a firearms' license and look a bit shifty (think Freddy Krueger) they'd probably think I was casing the joint for a future break-in. This one is noted for having had several in recent years.

If you go back, instead of the Miss Marple look, disguise yourself as Bonnie Parker... he might be even more impressed and ask you for a date.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2015, 08:17:29 AM »
Someone in the US on al's IA forum said when they fired their .22 rifle around a hundred times the moderator never got warm!  And one of the experts here, maybe Fletcher, said the moderator only became slightly (touch) warm after firing just twenty or so bullets.

The nearest gun shop is 20 miles away and as I haven't got a firearms' license and look a bit shifty (think Freddy Krueger) they'd probably think I was casing the joint for a future break-in. This one is noted for having had several in recent years.

If you go back, instead of the Miss Marple look, disguise yourself as Bonnie Parker... he might be even more impressed and ask you for a date.

But according to CAL and her recent interview with Dr Vanezis he is now of the opinion that the burn marks on NB's back were caused by the silencer?

If you recall Phillip Boyce took the temp when he carried out the pig skin test which showed after 25 shots it didn't heat up sufficiently to cause the burn marks.

And yes MF said it only became warm to the touch. 

But blood doesn't respond well to any sort of heat, even prolonged ambient temp, and the tests used to analyse the blood, sereological analysis, require good quality blood to yield results.

It should be straightforward to establish at what temp point blood is rendered useless for serological analysis. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2015, 09:17:18 AM »
According to CoA doc the silencer heated up to 24.5C after 25 rounds:

472. Mr Hayward, in contrast, has we are satisfied taken some steps to satisfy himself that he is right. He started from the proposition clearly supported by evidence that within the sound moderator there would be a very turbulent motion when the rifle was discharged. This by its very nature would produce forces that would tend to mix the blood from the two sources. In addition, the unscrewing of the sound moderator to remove it involved a twisting motion through a number of complete turns, which again would facilitate mixing. Starting from this proposition, it seemed to Mr Hayward that the only likelihood of an unmixed flake of blood would be if the blood from one source dried and blood from the other source then fell upon it. That possibility was recognised and experiments were carried out to see what happened when blood was in the moderator and other shots were discharged. First the temperature of the sound moderator was established after 25 shots had been fired through it. The temperature was found to be 24.5 degrees centigrade, which is substantially less than body temperature, and hence not likely to result in any speedy drying of the blood on the moderator. The further test that was carried out was to introduce blood onto the baffles and cause the rifle to be fired to see whether the blood did in fact dry. It did not and hence the conclusion was drawn that the blood would not have dried more quickly in the moderator than on some other non-porous surface. Having regard to the time span involved, it was therefore unlikely that blood from one person would have dried before the other person was shot. It seems to us that this investigative approach is precisely the sort of experimentation that one would expect from a scientist before a theory was advanced as being capable of being relied upon.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2015, 04:33:06 PM »
CAL/MF

"Ballistics expert Malcolm Fletcher recalls: 'The ammunition used to carry out the murders was Ely Subsonic.  The bullets themselves were coated with beeswax, which was quite unusual.  When you handled them you got a sort of black grease on your hands and when they were discharged, small specks of grease or wax were emitted, not just with the bullet but from the ejection port as well.  It would have been very visible'."

Based on my enquiries with Eley and the gun shop the above is totally wrong.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2015, 04:46:59 PM »
CAL/MF

"Ballistics expert Malcolm Fletcher recalls: 'The ammunition used to carry out the murders was Ely Subsonic.  The bullets themselves were coated with beeswax, which was quite unusual.  When you handled them you got a sort of black grease on your hands and when they were discharged, small specks of grease or wax were emitted, not just with the bullet but from the ejection port as well.  It would have been very visible'."

Based on my enquiries with Eley and the gun shop the above is totally wrong.
What did they say?   Please quote verbatim.