Lack of gunshot residue on Sheila's hands

[Holly Goodhead]

What did they say?   Please quote verbatim.

Email from Eley in thread confirming paraffin wax used not beeswax.

The gun shop didn't say anything.  They allowed me to handle the bullets and load them into the same mag used at WHF - please see my 'discovery' post from this morning.

 

[Myster]

It's thirty years ago, so not surprising that people forget. Malcolm Fletcher might have been thinking of other cases or analyses he's been involved with (although I doubt it), where Eley bullets coated with beeswax were used... or Eley themselves could be mistaken - none the staff employed in the technical section in the mid 1980's might work for them now. They might not even have records going so far back and just told you paraffin wax has always been used to satisfy your curiosity.

David Boutflour mentioned that the moderator felt sticky three days after the shooting. Maybe this was caused by JB having burnt beeswax residue on his hands, unscrewing and not thoroughly wiping it before putting it in the gun cupboard. Paraffin wax doesn't have that stickiness, imo.

[Holly Goodhead]

It's thirty years ago, so not surprising that people forget. Malcolm Fletcher might have been thinking of other cases or analyses he's been involved with (although I doubt it), where Eley bullets coated with beeswax were used... or Eley themselves could be mistaken - none the staff employed in the technical section in the mid 1980's might work for them now. They might not even have records going so far back and just told you paraffin wax has always been used to satisfy your curiosity.

David Boutflour mentioned that the moderator felt sticky three days after the shooting. Maybe this was caused by JB having burnt beeswax residue on his hands, unscrewing and not thoroughly wiping it before putting it in the gun cupboard. Paraffin wax doesn't have that stickiness, imo.

What makes you think Eley have it wrong and not FSS?  The evidence overwhelmingly points to FSS being in the wrong.

I'm sure it will be straightforward enough for JB's defence to obtain a written report from Eley confirming paraffin wax has always been used.  Eley appear professional both in terms of the website and my email communication from a marketing exec ywho has a degree and is a member of the chartered institute of marketing. 

The scientists at FSS have already confirmed the bullets they used in tests were "similar" to those used in the tragedy at WHF.  Yet at trial the jury were told they were the "same".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6629.msg275636#msg275636

I don't believe in any huge conspiracy.  I think the staff at FSS were basically incompetent and lacked the skills, knowledge and experience to manage a SoC like WHF.  I'm just looking for MF's quote in CAL's book where he actually states FSS didn't see many firearms cases.

[Holly Goodhead]

It was actually Dr Vanezis who stated:

"He [Dr V] requested the presence of a ballistics expert at the mortuary: 'You never know what you're going to find and we didn't see a large number of firearm cases at the time, so a ballistics expert was essential'."

[Myster]

Just been thinking again about which bullet type was used... how do we know for certain that they were Eley subsonic hollow-points, because all I've ever seen are the words - cartridges, bullet or bullets?  No mention in the judgements, w/s's, interviews or books, including the latest, unless Holly knows any different?

Came across this video from 2010, of a chap examining some Eley high-velocity (smokeless) with hollow points for rabbits, vermin, etc. which aren't made anymore, so maybe these and/or other earlier types of hunting bullet, possibly with a beeswax coating were produced in the mid 80's which the Bambers bought and were the ones Malcolm Fletcher tested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq9c-26A-XA

[Holly Goodhead]

Just been thinking again about which bullet type was used... how do we know for certain that they were Eley subsonic hollow-points, because all I've ever seen are the words - cartridges, bullet or bullets?  No mention in the judgements, w/s's, interviews or books, including the latest, unless Holly knows any different?

Came across this video from 2010, of a chap examining some Eley high-velocity (smokeless) with hollow points for rabbits, vermin, etc. which aren't made anymore, so maybe these and/or other earlier types of hunting bullet, possibly with a beeswax coating were produced in the mid 80's which the Bambers bought and were the ones Malcolm Fletcher tested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq9c-26A-XA

You don't read my posts 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6629.msg273395#msg273395

[Myster]

You don't read my posts 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6629.msg273395#msg273395

My bad!... as they say in Yankee land.  Which makes it even odder that MF should now think they were coated with beeswax.   He's probably forgotten after so long.

[Holly Goodhead]

My bad!... as they say in Yankee land.  Which makes it even odder that MF should now think they were coated with beeswax.  He's probably forgotten after so long.

Not necessarily.According to the CoA doc and FSS scientist Brian Elliot the bullets used in the lab to carry out various tests were "similar" to those used on the eve of the tragedy at WHF and not the "same".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6629.msg275636#msg275636

Surely the most obvious explanation is that the lab used similar bullets lubricated with beeswax and not the Eley manufactured bullets lubricated with paraffin wax?

The jury were allowed to handle the bullets and load the mag for themselves.  Question is which bullets?  We know the rifle, mag and silencer were handed over to EP/FSS and presented at trial but were the Eley subsonic bullets handed over?  Do we have an exhibit number for the bullets?

[Myster]

You'll ferret it out from somewhere.

[Holly Goodhead]

My bad!... as they say in Yankee land.  Which makes it even odder that MF should now think they were coated with beeswax.   He's probably forgotten after so long.

Also MF makes ref to Eley subsonic in CAL's book page 322.  Although she misspells Eley.  Perhaps she was thinking of Ely Cathedral which I can appreciate is a beautiful building despite being an atheist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7zSf54WsmE

Or with Vivaldi's Four Seasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ne4uvx5cb8

[Holly Goodhead]

I might need to start another thread for this but MF also made various assertions at trial and in CAL's book re how difficult the magazine was to load and also some malfunction on the rifle.  It appears the rifle and magazine presented to the jury were those used at WHF (certainly the silencer was) and we know poor NB sustained a dreadful beating with the rifle so much so it appears to have caused the stock to break.  Did this in turn cause some damage to the mag/rifle?  How did they function prior to this event? 

The CoA doc describes the rifle as "..in good working order..".

Examination of the rifle 69. The rifle was a German made Anschutz model 525 .22 self-loading rifle in good working order. Cartridges are loaded into a magazine, which has a capacity of 10. It is, as the jury found when they conducted the exercise themselves, progressively harder to load as the number of cartridges increases. Loading the tenth is exceptionally hard. Assuming a full capacity at the commencement of the shooting at the farm, the discharge of the rifle twenty-five times would require it to be re-loaded a minimum of two more times.

And yet CAL's book P 361/interview with MF:

"Ballistics expert Malcolm Fletcher was sworn in next, discussing the tests he had conducted, including those with the faulty magazine release mechanism on the rifle, during the course of which he had broken a thumbnail"  Awww 

[Holly Goodhead]

Why is Malcolm Fletcher starting to remind me of the guy in the Vicks sinex ad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3xfYGHXzI0

[Holly Goodhead]

Here we go CAL page 318:

"At the laboratory in Huntingdon Malcolm Fletcher examined the Anschutz noting its measurements and any damage before checking the mechanism.  'In terms of blood, viewing it externally, there was very little visible,' he recalls.  The Anschutz test fired normally, but he observed: 'The magazine is progressively harder to load as the number of cartridges in the magazine increases; loading the tenth cartridge is exceptionally difficult.' Today he reflects: 'You had to really press the last few hard and slide them into the magazine'."

"Fletcher also discovered a fault with the reloading mechanism: 'The slide that you pulled back to release a cartridge from the magazine into the chamber sometimes didn't go back far enough to let the cartridge case be drawn out, fire one and throw it out of the weapon as normal.  The cartridge case would be partially out and the slide would fly forward again, trapping the case in the chamber.  This happened when I was doing my tests and again later, when the jury asked for a demonstration of the gun being fired: part way through the sequence of firing a full magazine, the cartridge case jammed in the chamber and the ejection port'."  The fault provided one explanation for the cartridge case found on the stairs, although cartridge cases 'bounce and roll, and it's possible that they get picked up on clothing or kicked by someone walking past.  The ejection pattern on this gun was to the right and [it was] a matter of two or three feet where the case would normally fall.  But that was certainly one possibility'."

But, but the CoA doc states:

Examination of the rifle 69. The rifle was a German made Anschutz model 525 .22 self-loading rifle in good working order. Cartridges are loaded into a magazine, which has a capacity of 10. It is, as the jury found when they conducted the exercise themselves, progressively harder to load as the number of cartridges increases. Loading the tenth is exceptionally hard. Assuming a full capacity at the commencement of the shooting at the farm, the discharge of the rifle twenty-five times would require it to be re-loaded a minimum of two more times.

 &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

Here's MF's statement re the rifle malfunction:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=271.0;attach=871

Why then does the CoA doc state the rifle was in good working order?

Examination of the rifle 69. The rifle was a German made Anschutz model 525 .22 self-loading rifle in good working order. Cartridges are loaded into a magazine, which has a capacity of 10. It is, as the jury found when they conducted the exercise themselves, progressively harder to load as the number of cartridges increases. Loading the tenth is exceptionally hard. Assuming a full capacity at the commencement of the shooting at the farm, the discharge of the rifle twenty-five times would require it to be re-loaded a minimum of two more times.

[Holly Goodhead]

Sadly I think this thread is going to be a long drawn out solo mass debating session   

I've taken CAL's interview with MF as follows:

"Ballistics expert Malcolm Fletcher recalls: 'The ammunition used to carry out the murders was Eley Subsonic. The bullets themselves were coated with beeswax, which was quite unusual. When you handled them you got a sort of black grease on your hands and when they were discharged, small specks of grease or wax were emitted, not just with the bullet but from the ejection port as well. It would be very visible'."

"Forensic scientist Brian Elliot recorded 'very low levels of lead' from Sheila's hand swabs. Comparison tests with two members of laboratory staff who loaded a total of eighteen cartridges into the magazine from the rifle, showed significantly higher levels of lead. Elliot concluded: 'I would expect hands of a person loading cartridges into the rifle to bear appreciable deposits of lead. No such deposits have been found on the hand swabs from Sheila Caffell".

"But Fletcher remains confident that wax discharged from the fired bullets would have resulted in 'some of the material ending up on the shooter. I tested the surface of Sheila's nightdress and I got no indication, either visual or chemical, of lead or wax material. I would have expected to find it especially with the number of shots that were fired. I tested it thoroughly and there was no evidence of the spots of waxy material that showed up on the test fires'."

"On 29 April, defence firearms expert Freddie Mead asked to examine the rifle, silencer, bullets, cartridge cases, clothing, x-rays and photographs at the laboratory in Huntingdon. Malcolm Fletcher recalls: 'What they did was they got Freddie Mead to load cartridges into the magazine without touching the bullet, which is all fine and good - yes, you can do it, but its contrived. You've got to put the base of the cartridge case in and then press it and slide it down without touching the bullet itself, which isn't easy. Once you get up to the ninth and tenth cartridge its damn near impossible."

"Fletchers colleague Glynis Howard gave evidence next, followed by Brian Elliot, who told the court about very low levels of lead detected from Sheila's hand swabs. Rivlin counter-acted his testimony by referring to ritualistic washing again and drawing Elliot's attention to traces of other elements, iron and copper, in the test results. The scientist responded that these were no higher than might be ordinarily obtained from the atmosphere".

"The jury also requested an opportunity to see for themselves how much oil and other residues might be left on the hands of someone loading bullets into the Anschutz magazine. They were permitted to conduct an experiment in a nearby room".

End of quotes from book

1. Which bullets were being used to carry out all these tests including those used at trial?

2. When I loaded the Eley Subsonic bullets into the Anschutz magazine it was easier that replacing a battery in the tv remote.  There was no difference between the first and last bullet ie it didn't get progressively more difficult. 

3. The  bullets are loaded by inserting the lead head and pressing on the brass end so there was no need to even touch the lead head.

4. MF's description of beeswax flying around makes it sound like the shooter gets showered in it.  Firstly according to Eley the subsonic bullets have never been manufactured in beeswax.  Secondly they are manufactured with paraffin wax which is used as a lubricant by coating the head and are minuscule amounts of clear wax.  How on earth could these amounts, in such small quantities, be ejected from the ejection port and then be visible on the shooter?  The bullet head is lubricated in paraffin wax and fired out of the barrel.  The brass part which isn't lubricated is fired out of the ejection port.  &%+((£

5. Did MF carry out tests on the rifle and magazine used at WHF which were both possibly damaged from the beating poor NB sustained and compare with a brand new Anschutz rifle and magazine? 

6. Was the point about MF breaking a nail some sort of inference that had SC have operated the rifle and magazine she would have damaged her nails?

7. The jury were allowed to test the rifle and magazine for themselves.  Yet if the rifle and mag were those used at WHF and they were damaged this wasn't really an accurate reflection of how they would normally operate.

Wilkes book makes ref to serious shortcomings at FSS Huntingdon so much so a team were sent in to sort things out.  This was nothing to do with WHF case.  Were the scientists incompetent due to lack of experience with a SoC such as WHF, especially with regards to firearms?  Or did EP say look we know he's guilty and we want the 'evidence' presented this way?  Or was it combination of both with a bit of flawed group thinking thrown in for good measure?

Had all these police officers, scientists, expert witnesses and members of the judiciary been a less homogenous group would this have made a difference?  99% white, middle aged, males.