Author Topic: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits  (Read 65442 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline misty

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2016, 01:27:04 AM »
The facts are that the mccanns were given efits in mid 2008 and SAT on them for a year

No stone unturned has been proven by THEIR actions to be a TOTAL JOKE in that they WITHHELD the efits from all police forces for a year

thats criminal imo

Perhaps brietta you can justify this, Im all ears

Eta lets not forget that it is a fact that another stone UNTURNED for five years was not informng the public of a potential lead....the smith sighting does seem to have been a bummer in this case

If the Smiths did the efits in mid 2008, weren't they guilty of withholding evidence from the active PJ investigators?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 09:38:08 AM by Admin »

Offline mercury

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2016, 01:30:51 AM »
I think the more relevant issue is why the PJ didn't act upon receipt of the potentially crucial new evidence. Could it have been because they deemed the witness unreliable & the original testimonies would not have stood up in court? If so, what purpose would it have served releasing the efits on UK TV?

Why didnt LP act on it

And the purpose of releasing it in tv would be the same as doing any tv appeal, like moustache man like beckham woman like spottyman you know, no stone etc, but no smithman EVER, even if he was the only one around at the time, strange that, seems to me more stones got left unturned than turned, pfffttt

Offline mercury

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2016, 01:32:54 AM »
If the Smiths did the efits in mid 2008, weren't they guilty of withholding evidence from the active PJ investigators?

No, the case was closed june july 2008 the efits were done a few months later, november iirc
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 09:38:40 AM by Admin »

Offline misty

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2016, 01:46:28 AM »
No, the case was closed june july 2008 the efits were done a few months later, november iirc

Oakley were sacked in September 2008. Try again.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 09:38:55 AM by Admin »

Offline Robittybob1

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2016, 02:37:18 AM »
If the Smiths did the efits in mid 2008, weren't they guilty of withholding evidence from the active PJ investigators?
Is there such a crime?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline mercury

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #125 on: August 10, 2016, 03:00:21 AM »
Oakley were sacked in September 2008. Try again.

Are you sure about the dates?

It is known the report and efits were as nov 2008
See post 1410
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2794.1410


I wonder why people here cant agree on the facts and have to rehash them ovef over and over with their own little spin
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 09:39:09 AM by Admin »

Offline Carana

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #126 on: August 10, 2016, 07:49:51 AM »
Wiki's assessment of the ST article:

Exton submitted his report to Madeleine's Fund in November 2008, but the Fund told Exton that the report and its efits had to remain confidential. The relationship between the company and the Fund soured, in part because of a dispute over fees, and in part because the report was critical of the McCanns and their friends; it suggested that Madeleine may have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself through its unlocked patio doors.[50] The Fund passed the e-fits to the police – the Polícia Judiciária and Leicestershire police had them by October 2009, and Scotland Yard received them when they became involved in August 2011[176] – but did not otherwise release them. Kate McCann did not include them with the other images of suspects in her book, Madeleine (2011), although she suggested that both the Tanner and Smith sightings were crucial. Scotland Yard released the e-fits in 2013 for a BBC Crimewatch reconstruction.[50]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#Oakley

Oakley may well have been sacked in September, with some subsequent wrangling to get them to hand over the report / efits to the Fund (which apparently happened in November if the ST is correct). Not everything in that article appears to be accurate, so I have a doubt - perhaps unfounded - as to whether both the report and the efits were handed over at the same time. The outfit seems to have been such a mess that I find it feasible that the Fund had to chase up different people, whom Halligen may well not have paid.

Again if ST is correct, LP / PJ had them by Oct 2009, but didn't act on them. The case had been shelved but the PJ still had primacy over the investigation, with LP acting to provide assistance when requested to do so by the PJ. Did Paiva bother to submit it to the prosecutor to try to get the case reopened to investigate it, or did it go in his vertical filing tray along with everything else that came in, allegedly?

Without a UK open investigation, I'd have thought it difficult for LP to attempt to check any background (or cross-check details) of who Smithman might be. He might have been another crècheman for all anyone knew (or knows).

As to why Kate devoted 4 pages to Smithman without using the efits... I somewhat doubt that it was because one of them vaguely resembled Gerry. There could have been copyright issues; she could have been advised not to by the police pending a review / reopening of the case.

From other investigations that I've observed, the police make public appeals once they've got their ducks lined up: making sure that the individual is definitely of interest (and not someone already eliminated); know more or less how they're going to handle the information; and time the appeal to get as wide an audience as possible.


« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 09:19:01 AM by Carana »

Offline G-Unit

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #127 on: August 10, 2016, 08:03:20 AM »
Oakley were sacked in September 2008. Try again.

The Times said;

The report, delivered to the McCanns in November 2008, recommended that the revised timeline should be the basis for future investigations and that the Smith E-Fits should be released without delay.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/78oct13/Times_27_10_2013.htm

That date was also not denied.

I wonder who the 'independent consultant' was who was employed by the Fund to liaise with Oakley and oversee the work they did?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 09:42:49 AM by Admin »
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline G-Unit

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #128 on: August 10, 2016, 08:22:30 AM »
Wiki's assessment of the ST article:

Exton submitted his report to Madeleine's Fund in November 2008, but the Fund told Exton that the report and its efits had to remain confidential. The relationship between the company and the Fund soured, in part because of a dispute over fees, and in part because the report was critical of the McCanns and their friends; it suggested that Madeleine may have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself through its unlocked patio doors.[50] The Fund passed the e-fits to the police – the Polícia Judiciária and Leicestershire police had them by October 2009, and Scotland Yard received them when they became involved in August 2011[176] – but did not otherwise release them. Kate McCann did not include them with the other images of suspects in her book, Madeleine (2011), although she suggested that both the Tanner and Smith sightings were crucial. Scotland Yard released the e-fits in 2013 for a BBC Crimewatch reconstruction.[50]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#Oakley

Oakley may well have been sacked in September, with some subsequent wrangling to get them to hand over the report / efits to the Fund (which apparently happened in November if the ST is correct). Not everything in that article appears to be accurate, so I have a doubt - perhaps unfounded - as to whether both the report and the efits were handed over at the same time. The outfit seems to have been such a mess that I find it feasible that the Fund had to chase up different people, whom Halligen may well not have paid.

Again if ST is correct, LP / PJ had them by Oct 2009, but didn't act on them. The case had been shelved but the PJ still had primacy over the investigation, with LP acting to provide assistance when requested to do so by the PJ. Did Paiva bother to submit it to the prosecutor to try to get the case reopened to investigate it, or did it go in his vertical filing tray along with everything else that came in, allegedly?

Without a UK open investigation, I'd have thought it difficult for LP to attempt to check any background (or cross-check details) of who Smithman might be. He might have been another crècheman for all anyone knew (or knows).

As to why Kate devoted 4 pages to Smithman without using the efits... I somewhat doubt that it was because one of them vaguely resembled Gerry. There could have been copyright issues; she could have been advised not to by the police pending a review / reopening of the case.

From other investigations that I've observed, the police make public appeals once they've got their ducks lined up: making sure that the individual is definitely of interest (and not someone already eliminated); know more or less how they're going to handle the information; and time the appeal to get as wide an audience as possible.

The Met had had them since 2011, but took

I think the unpaid sub-contractors chased the McCanns, rather than the other way round;

Several months later, one of the investigators subcontracted by Oakley contacted us to demand payment for his services. We had already settled Oakley’s bill for this work months before, but apparently the company had not paid him. He was not the only one. Over time several more unpaid subcontractors came to light.
[Madeleine by Kate McCann]

Could that have been in November 2008 I wonder?

Whatever happened an opportunity was missed. The Oakley report dismissed the Tanner sighting and suggested that the Smith sighting should take precedence, with a corresponding move in the timing of the abduction to just before 10pm. Upon reflection SY agreed, so Oakley seem to have been looking in the right direction. 
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Brietta

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #129 on: August 10, 2016, 08:31:35 AM »
I think the unpaid sub-contractors chased the McCanns, rather than the other way round;

Several months later, one of the investigators subcontracted by Oakley contacted us to demand payment for his services. We had already settled Oakley’s bill for this work months before, but apparently the company had not paid him. He was not the only one. Over time several more unpaid subcontractors came to light.
[Madeleine by Kate McCann]

Could that have been in November 2008 I wonder?

Whatever happened an opportunity was missed. The Oakley report dismissed the Tanner sighting and suggested that the Smith sighting should take precedence, with a corresponding move in the timing of the abduction to just before 10pm. Upon reflection SY agreed, so Oakley seem to have been looking in the right direction.

Amazingly good detective work ... perhaps flawed by the failure to notice the the criminal at the heart of the organisation.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #130 on: August 10, 2016, 10:22:02 AM »
Amazingly good detective work ... perhaps flawed by the failure to notice the the criminal at the heart of the organisation.

Are you suggesting that the sub-contractors were criminals? I thought they were also victims.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #131 on: August 10, 2016, 12:28:18 PM »
Well if Oakley and The MPS were both looking in the same direction they were either both right or both wrong.
Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer pick. One being right and the other being wrong because it is bent would seem not to be among the choices.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #132 on: August 10, 2016, 12:57:11 PM »
Wiki's assessment of the ST article:

Exton submitted his report to Madeleine's Fund in November 2008, but the Fund told Exton that the report and its efits had to remain confidential. The relationship between the company and the Fund soured, in part because of a dispute over fees, and in part because the report was critical of the McCanns and their friends; it suggested that Madeleine may have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself through its unlocked patio doors.[50] The Fund passed the e-fits to the police – the Polícia Judiciária and Leicestershire police had them by October 2009, and Scotland Yard received them when they became involved in August 2011[176] – but did not otherwise release them. Kate McCann did not include them with the other images of suspects in her book, Madeleine (2011), although she suggested that both the Tanner and Smith sightings were crucial. Scotland Yard released the e-fits in 2013 for a BBC Crimewatch reconstruction.[50]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#Oakley

Oakley may well have been sacked in September, with some subsequent wrangling to get them to hand over the report / efits to the Fund (which apparently happened in November if the ST is correct). Not everything in that article appears to be accurate, so I have a doubt - perhaps unfounded - as to whether both the report and the efits were handed over at the same time. The outfit seems to have been such a mess that I find it feasible that the Fund had to chase up different people, whom Halligen may well not have paid.

Again if ST is correct, LP / PJ had them by Oct 2009, but didn't act on them. The case had been shelved but the PJ still had primacy over the investigation, with LP acting to provide assistance when requested to do so by the PJ. Did Paiva bother to submit it to the prosecutor to try to get the case reopened to investigate it, or did it go in his vertical filing tray along with everything else that came in, allegedly?

Without a UK open investigation, I'd have thought it difficult for LP to attempt to check any background (or cross-check details) of who Smithman might be. He might have been another crècheman for all anyone knew (or knows).

As to why Kate devoted 4 pages to Smithman without using the efits... I somewhat doubt that it was because one of them vaguely resembled Gerry. There could have been copyright issues; she could have been advised not to by the police pending a review / reopening of the case.

From other investigations that I've observed, the police make public appeals once they've got their ducks lined up: making sure that the individual is definitely of interest (and not someone already eliminated); know more or less how they're going to handle the information; and time the appeal to get as wide an audience as possible.



Bingo!

End of mystery.

Nothing 'withheld' for 5 years.

Offline Brietta

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #133 on: August 10, 2016, 03:08:01 PM »
Well if Oakley and The MPS were both looking in the same direction they were either both right or both wrong.
Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer pick. One being right and the other being wrong because it is bent would seem not to be among the choices.

                 Isn't hindsight a really exact science ...  %£&)**#
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Re: SY Crimewatch Smithman Efits
« Reply #134 on: August 10, 2016, 03:53:04 PM »
Bingo!

End of mystery.

Nothing 'withheld' for 5 years.

Regardless of the dogs dinner article by the Sunday Times, the bottom line was that the e-fits were indeed withheld from public scrutiny for over 5 years.  They were created by Halligen and Exton of Oakley in 2008 and not publicly released until October 2013.

Who withheld them and why should be the question?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2794.msg95381#msg95381
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3147.msg115737#msg115737
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 04:13:35 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.