Did Eddie and Keela work as a team prior to the Madeleine McCann case?

[ferryman]

There will be.

Now who brought up this matter this morning ferryman ?

There will be what?

Don't understand your second question at all.

[stephen25000]

There will be what?

Don't understand your second question at all.

Try reading the recent posts. It would help.

[ferryman]

We are way off-topic.

Did Eddie and Keela work together before pdl?

There is an FOI answer from South Yorkshire Police I no longer have which makes reference to Eddie working alone with Grime OR working with Grime, with another handler, Ellis, AND with another dog, Frankie.

That answer gives the full break-down of Eddie's deployments and makes no reference to Keela.

So I think we can safely assume that Eddie and Keela worked together for the first time in PdL.

[Brietta]

You will find the Haute de la Garenne case isn't over yet.

Good deflection from the fact that Eddie as a cadaver dog was well past his sell by date both in Praia da Luz and at Haute de la Garenne ~ but it doesn't change the fact.

[ferryman]

Nothing will ever change the fact that no-one will ever know to what Eddie alerted ... although we can strongly suspect that we were watching the first act of a dog which was past its prime the finale of which was enacted in Haute de la Garenne.

I can speculate why he alerted to cuddle-cat. 

He was having such fun playing with it, then some bounder hid it and he wanted his toy back.

Not the best discipline for a working police dog attending a crime scene ...

[Mr Gray]

I can speculate why he alerted to cuddle-cat. 

He was having such fun playing with it, then some bounder hid it and he wanted his toy back.

Not the best discipline for a working police dog attending a crime scene ...

perfect sense

[Brietta]

We are way off-topic.

Did Eddie and Keela work together before pdl?

There is an FOI answer from South Yorkshire Police I no longer have which makes reference to Eddie working alone with Grime OR working with Grime, with another handler, Ellis, AND with another dog, Frankie.

That answer gives the full break-down of Eddie's deployments and makes no reference to Keela.

So I think we can safely assume that Eddie and Keela worked together for the first time in PdL.

South Yorkshire Police FOI

Eddie the Springer Spaniel sniffer dog.
Reference number: 20090062
Request date: 19/02/2009 (All day)
Response date: 30/03/2009 (All day)
Request details:
 
SYP response:
Thank you for your request for information in relation to:

1. Which cases has Eddie the Springer Spaniel sniffer dog been used in within the South Yorkshire Force area over the last five years?
Eddie, the specialist dog is no longer with South Yorkshire Police. He and his handler left the Force in August 2007. The information supplied therefore relates to his service between 2003 and 2007.

Information relating directly to the nature of each Victim Search Dog deployment, if made public could cause unnecessary distress to the persons and families connected with the deceased. However, we can provide the following details regarding Victim Search Dog deployments between 2003 and 2007:

As two teams working together: handler Ellis and dog Frankie, with handler Grime and dog Eddie have been deployed on twenty occasions, with the recovery of four bodies.

Working alone, Grime/Eddie have been deployed on seventeen occasions with the recovery of one body and Ellis/Frankie have been deployed on five occasions with the recovery of three bodies, this includes the recovery of two women in one grave.

  ~~~   ~~~   ~~~   ~~~

I make that eight bodies found by two cadaver dogs over a time span of five years.  That suggests to me that it is not as easy for the dogs to find human remains as we are led to believe ... and that is no disparagement of the dogs ... if the remains aren't there to be found in the first instance, they won't be.

[Mr Gray]

Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion. This support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in circumstantial evidence.

The dog alerts are thus evidence as Anna pointed out earlier but the significance of this evidence is as yet undetermined.  In relation to Madeleine the alerts might have no significance whatsoever but then again they might have every significance.  As Mr Grime pointed out, the alerts at that moment in time had no evidential reliability since they were uncorroborated by forensic results but nevertheless, they are evidence of something.

First John you have made a very good case for the fact that Maddie is missing is evidence of abduction.

Apart from that you have totally missed the point. Should new evidence come to light then it will be the new evidence itself that will be important...not the alerts. I'm surprised you can't see that

[Brietta]

I can speculate why he alerted to cuddle-cat. 

He was having such fun playing with it, then some bounder hid it and he wanted his toy back.

Not the best discipline for a working police dog attending a crime scene ...

In my opinion it exactly mirrors the dogs training when the scent object is hidden;  Eddie found the scent he recognised which wasn't cadaver ... it was his toy; a fact not missed by the PJ.

[ferryman]

South Yorkshire Police FOI

Eddie the Springer Spaniel sniffer dog.
Reference number: 20090062
Request date: 19/02/2009 (All day)
Response date: 30/03/2009 (All day)
Request details:
 
SYP response:
Thank you for your request for information in relation to:

1. Which cases has Eddie the Springer Spaniel sniffer dog been used in within the South Yorkshire Force area over the last five years?
Eddie, the specialist dog is no longer with South Yorkshire Police. He and his handler left the Force in August 2007. The information supplied therefore relates to his service between 2003 and 2007.

Information relating directly to the nature of each Victim Search Dog deployment, if made public could cause unnecessary distress to the persons and families connected with the deceased. However, we can provide the following details regarding Victim Search Dog deployments between 2003 and 2007:

As two teams working together: handler Ellis and dog Frankie, with handler Grime and dog Eddie have been deployed on twenty occasions, with the recovery of four bodies.

Working alone, Grime/Eddie have been deployed on seventeen occasions with the recovery of one body and Ellis/Frankie have been deployed on five occasions with the recovery of three bodies, this includes the recovery of two women in one grave.

  ~~~   ~~~   ~~~   ~~~

I make that eight bodies found by two cadaver dogs over a time span of five years.  That suggests to me that it is not as easy for the dogs to find human remains as we are led to believe ... and that is no disparagement of the dogs ... if the remains aren't there to be found in the first instance, they won't be.

Thank you Brietta.

Also puts in the shade Grime's claim of over 200 deployments (for Eddie)

But we are off-topic again.

[stephen25000]

It would seem that mccann supporters are keen on FOI's to the SY police.

[ferryman]

It would seem that mccann supporters are keen on FOI's to the SY police.

What is your objection to FOI questions and answers?

[Mr Gray]

It would seem that mccann supporters are keen on FOI's to the SY police.

another false statement...can't you get anything right

[stephen25000]

What is your objection to FOI questions and answers?

On principal nothing.

Unless of course people have an ulterior motive.

[ferryman]

On principal nothing.

Unless of course people have an ulterior motive.

What is wrong with the ulterior motive of wanting to separate fact from fiction?