Did Eddie and Keela work as a team prior to the Madeleine McCann case?

[ferryman]

Have you handled dogs in this field of investigative work, YES or NO ?

What's that got to do with anything?

Did Eddie or did Eddie not play with cuddle cat?

Did Eddie or did Eddie not react to cuddle-cat only after it was hidden?

Did both dogs or did both dogs not trample all over stuff that was laid out in the gym?

Did Eddie or did Eddie not pick stuff up in his mouth?

Did a PJ inspector or did a PJ Inspector not comment with puzzlement that the dog reacted (eventually) after returning to spots he had passed several times without reacting?

[Alfred R Jones]

They tell us the dogs alerted to substances, some of which could be substances for which they were trained.  You might call it useless but I call it evidence with potential.

What substances did they alert to then and how might these be potentially useful in this case?

[Mr Gray]

They tell us the dogs alerted to substances, some of which could be substances for which they were trained.  You might call it useless but I call it evidence with potential.

potential for what...please expand...nothing was found at the site eddie alerted to...nothing can confirm that alert. I Maddie's body was found tomorrow that does not mean she died in the apartment.
I say the alerts are useless because they tell us nothing...can anyone tell me what the alerts tell us..

remember Grime says no evidential value....you and others can post all you like but you cannot tell us what information the alerts give us

[mercury]

What false logic.?

That because both dogs react to the same place must mean the alert was to blood, it's possible and probable if you like, (stretching it because why use Keela at all if Eddie alerts to blood in an area which would only require use of luminol to confirm) but not certain...the reason I added that a strong DNA match was required as corroboration, was not because  it would  prove just the presence of blood but that a victims DNA was found, which is the nearest corroboration you can have for the cadaver dog alerts to cadaver scent, iyswim....

your two premises are correct IE Eddie alerts to blood, keela alerts to blood, but your conclusion is not,because Eddie also alerts to dead body scent which is different, if it was not different there would be no need in the first place to make a differentiation between the two and use two types of dogs..anyway bored with labouring points....you have your beliefs,(right or wrong) I have my understandings(right or wrong) bit pointless to keep argueing the toss forever more...life's too short lol

[Mr Gray]

That because both dogs react to the same place must mean the alert was to blood, it's possible and probable if you like, (stretching it because why use Keela at all if Eddie alerts to blood in an area which would only require use of luminol to confirm) but not certain...the reason I added that a strong DNA match was required as corroboration, was not because  it would  prove just the presence of blood but that a victims DNA was found, which is the nearest corroboration you can have for the cadaver dog alerts to cadaver scent, iyswim....

your two premises are correct IE Eddie alerts to blood, keela alerts to blood, but your conclusion is not,because Eddie also alerts to dead body scent which is different, if it was not different there would be no need in the first place to make a differentiation between the two and use two types of dogs..anyway bored with labouring points....you have your beliefs,(right or wrong) I have my understandings(right or wrong) bit pointless to keep argueing the toss forever more...life's too short lol

without confirmation the alerts are meaningless..full stop ...move on

[mercury]

I deplore the fact that people, to the present day, speculate how "cadaver scent" got on Kate's clothes; "cadaver scent" got on cuddle-cat; "cadaver scent" got in to the Renault Scenic; "cadaver scent" got in the holiday apartment.

Blame for all that baseless speculation rests with one man ....

Ridiculous assertion....Harrison and Grime and all other cadaver dog handlers say cadaver dogs can react to remnant cadaver scent....so NOT speculation or baseless from Mr Amaral at all, why do you insist on twisting things? your vindictive vendetta is getting a tad boring.

[mercury]

Good deflection from the fact that Eddie as a cadaver dog was well past his sell by date both in Praia da Luz and at Haute de la Garenne ~ but it doesn't change the fact.

Jersey was NOT Eddies final deployment so why did you call it a finale??? Do try and get facts correct before making assertions, thank you, spreading misinformation helps no one...oh hang on

[Brietta]

Jersey was NOT Eddies final deployment so why did you call it a finale??? Do try and get facts correct before making assertions, thank you, spreading misinformation helps no one...oh hang on

If it wasn't his final deployment it was most certainly the end of his credibility.  I know that Martin Grime took Morse and Keela to America, what cases did Eddie work on after Haute de la Garenne?

[mercury]

If it wasn't his final deployment it was most certainly the end of his credibility.  I know that Martin Grime took Morse and Keela to America, what cases did Eddie work on after Haute de la Garenne?

In your unprofessional opinion of course

People have long spouted that Eddie never worked again post PDL...right here on this forum....there's (ignoring Jersey which obviously  slipped their minds) at least one USA case in Sept 2007 and a Northern Ireland case in 2010 where he was deployed..the latter being direct testament that the UK authorities chose to use him "despite" not being "accredited"..and despite havng their own sniffer dogs,and don't forget, not all stories contain details on whether dogs were used/which dogs were used

Refs are :Teresa Parker and Bob Rose murders

[Brietta]

In your unprofessional opinion of course

People have long spouted that Eddie never worked again post PDL...right here on this forum....there's (ignoring Jersey which obviously  slipped their minds) at least one USA case in Sept 2007 and a Northern Ireland case in 2010 where he was deployed..the latter being direct testament that the UK authorities chose to use him "despite" not being "accredited"..and despite havng their own sniffer dogs,and don't forget, not all stories contain details on whether dogs were used/which dogs were used

Refs are :Teresa Parker and Bob Rose murders

I believe in Mrs Parker's case there was something about the cadaver dog woofing at a derelict building next door and the claim being made that the alert was due to someone having burned to death in it. Not what one would term a resounding success.

The search for Mr Rose benefited from the perpetrator of the crime taking the team including Eddie, Keela and Morse to the dunes where the internment of the remains had been carried out ... even at that I believe it was some time before they found him.

You are most definitely correct that dog handlers tend to work below the radar despite quite often being called to give evidence in court.  In fact I can't think of another instance in which the handlers receive any publicity to the extent we know who they are ... in the case of the dogs they seem to be named only in relation to association with Madeleine McCann.  Who knew Tito and Muzzy had searched for April until they turned up in Praia da Luz?

[mercury]

I believe in Mrs Parker's case there was something about the cadaver dog woofing at a derelict building next door and the claim being made that the alert was due to someone having burned to death in it. Not what one would term a resounding success.

The search for Mr Rose benefited from the perpetrator of the crime taking the team including Eddie, Keela and Morse to the dunes where the internment of the remains had been carried out ... even at that I believe it was some time before they found him.

You are most definitely correct that dog handlers tend to work below the radar despite quite often being called to give evidence in court.  In fact I can't think of another instance in which the handlers receive any publicity to the extent we know who they are ... in the case of the dogs they seem to be named only in relation to association with Madeleine McCann.  Who knew Tito and Muzzy had searched for April until they turned up in Praia da Luz?

Ok, so first you make a (wrong) categoric statement about when Eddie was last deployed, (IE jersey)  and suggesting reasons why, IE "past his sell by date" I correct you, And say your categoric statement was untrue, you then ask me why,  give an example, which I do, and you most predictably then go on to trash the dog with a few reasons which proves youwere making statements while at the same time  feigning ignorance of those cases unless you were speedy Gonzales on google...so embarrassingly laughable

And as for the media in more current years naming dogs, it IS a new development and it had nothing to do with with McCann case per se and mostly because any similarities in most high profile cases with links in any shape or form are normally brought into discussion anyway in various details...so pls don't try and create  another myth

Ps...why am I getting jassis avatar lol  at the end of my posts before submit with a header of attachments and other options and then the words

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview

4am glitches? Or new forum project in mid construction? See it after submitting as a quick reply option at the bottom but squeezed and seemingly non functional?

[ferryman]

That because both dogs react to the same place must mean the alert was to blood, it's possible and probable if you like, (stretching it because why use Keela at all if Eddie alerts to blood in an area which would only require use of luminol to confirm) but not certain...the reason I added that a strong DNA match was required as corroboration, was not because  it would  prove just the presence of blood but that a victims DNA was found, which is the nearest corroboration you can have for the cadaver dog alerts to cadaver scent, iyswim....

your two premises are correct IE Eddie alerts to blood, keela alerts to blood, but your conclusion is not,because Eddie also alerts to dead body scent which is different, if it was not different there would be no need in the first place to make a differentiation between the two and use two types of dogs..anyway bored with labouring points....you have your beliefs,(right or wrong) I have my understandings(right or wrong) bit pointless to keep argueing the toss forever more...life's too short lol

No.

In fairness, you've set your position very clearly and I (now) understand what you are getting at.  In the Attracta Harron case, Eddie alerted to the car of the man eventually convicted of her murder and human traces were found (blood, I think) which matched the DNA profile of the victim, and that was instrumental in the subsequent conviction of her murderer.

So yes, in the abstract, it is possible that Keela and Eddie could alert in the same spot, and evidence could be uncovered with cracks a crime.

You make a good point well.

In the specific, however, (as I'm sure you realise) finding traces of Madeleine's blood in the apartment would be no big deal.  And, of course, both dogs indicating in the same place would indicate blood rather than cadaver odour.

In fairness, Amaral understood that, and said so in his book.

[faithlilly]

No.

In fairness, you've set your position very clearly and I (now) understand what you are getting at.  In the Attracta Harron case, Eddie alerted to the car of the man eventually convicted of her murder and human traces were found (blood, I think) which matched the DNA profile of the victim, and that was instrumental in the subsequent conviction of her murderer.

So yes, in the abstract, it is possible that Keela and Eddie could alert in the same spot, and evidence could be uncovered with cracks a crime.

You make a good point well.

In the specific, however, (as I'm sure you realise) finding traces of Madeleine's blood in the apartment would be no big deal.  And, of course, both dogs indicating in the same place would indicate blood rather than cadaver odour.

In fairness, Amaral understood that, and said so in his book.

And where Eddie alerts and Keela doesn't, in the bedroom for example, would exclude the scent being blood and would be more likely to be cadaver odour.

[Alfred R Jones]

And where Eddie alerts and Keela doesn't, in the bedroom for example, would exclude the scent being blood and would be more likely to be cadaver odour.

In the theory you set out yesterday and which has now been removed from the forum for being libellous there would not have been time for cadaver scent to have developed.  I know we can't discuss it here but I thought it worth pointing out that you'll have to revise your theory somewhat.   

[Brietta]

In the theory you set out yesterday and which has now been removed from the forum for being libellous there would not have been time for cadaver scent to have developed.  I know we can't discuss it here but I thought it worth pointing out that you'll have to revise your theory somewhat.   

Am I right in thinking that Keela made two false alerts to the curtains which were sent off to the FSS for testing?