Did Eddie and Keela work as a team prior to the Madeleine McCann case?

[ferryman]

Eddie was brought in after the body was found to find any further evidence of death in other places such as her home to find out where she was murdered. Suspects clothes tested etc.

Six-year-old English springer spaniel Eddie from South Yorkshire Police and his female companion Keela have formed part of a specialist dog team hunting for clues after the 35-year-old's badly decomposed body was found floating in Waterford Quays on October 15.

Martin Grime, who handles both Eddie and Keela, said today: "Obviously the body had been found already, so we went into investigative mode and the dogs were brought to Waterford and Dublin.

"Eddie would be tasked to tell us where the body had been before it was found and would indicate any clothing that would have come into contact with the body.

"Keela was there to find any blood traces.

"We cannot comment on whether the dogs found anything as the investigation is still ongoing."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/attracta-sniffer-dog-joins-hunt-for-new-killer-28114027.html

Stuff and bloody nonsense.

You don't use cadaver dogs like that.

No one does

[stephen25000]

Stuff and bloody nonsense.

You don't use cadaver dogs like that.

No one does

Have you read the article ?

Is your judgement based on your professional experience in this field of forensic dog use ?

[pathfinder73]

Stuff and bloody nonsense.

You don't use cadaver dogs like that.

No one does

They've got the body but they have to find the killer so the dogs are used to find further clues/evidence. Suspects clothes will be examined by the dogs and other places, vehicles etc. They have to connect the death/murder to the perp(s) so the dogs are used.

[misty]

They've got the body but they have to find the killer so the dogs are used to find further clues/evidence. Suspects clothes will be examined by the dogs and other places, vehicles etc. They have to connect the death/murder to the perp(s) so the dogs are used.

They had the body, they had the blood, they had a suspect but presumably they didn't get a woof.

[ferryman]

They've got the body but they have to find the killer so the dogs are used to find further clues/evidence. Suspects clothes will be examined by the dogs and other places, vehicles etc. They have to connect the death/murder to the perp(s) so the dogs are used.

If you have the body, you have the DNA comparisons, so the next task is to link DNA to a suspect/the victim.

A cadaver dog won't help you with that ...

[mercury]

If you have the body, you have the DNA comparisons, so the next task is to link DNA to a suspect/the victim.

A cadaver dog won't help you with that ...

If you have the body and DNA comparisons why the need for the Irish police to request to bring  in three dogs from Wales and Keela according to one report or Eddie and Keela according to another report then

?
And you still haven't given your reasons why the Belfast telegraph is wrong stating that Eddie and Keela did go to Waterford to investigate the murder of Meg Walsh further

[pegasus]

"The four dogs ... include two from South Yorkshire Police and one of those is the only one in the world trained to detect human blood ... the other is a victim recovery dog and helps us find human remains. The other two dogs are specially trained to follow a specific scent, an individual scent,"
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-dog-team-used-to-help-gardai-sniff-out-clues-26360760.html

[mercury]

Thanks for that another great find Pegasus....I believe we have enough evidence now, to state that the answer to the OP is a probably/definitely yes...unless FM can provide credible or concrete evidence that this is not true, and that does not include their own thnking, just facts should do it


Not that it really bothers me as I'm not trying to make a case of convince anyone of anything whist going against all normal indications  unlike the OP and the veiled assertion in the title that no, they never really did work together before 2007 and somehow this non fact making their work in PDL defunct or because of some other strange reason, oh well

[ferryman]

Thanks for that another great find Pegasus....I believe we have enough evidence now, to state that the answer to the OP is a probably/definitely yes...unless FM can provide credible or concrete evidence that this is not true, and that does not include their own thnking, just facts should do it


Not that it really bothers me as I'm not trying to make a case of convince anyone of anything whist going against all normal indications  unlike the OP and the veiled assertion in the title that no, they never really did work together before 2007 and somehow this non fact making their work in PDL defunct or because of some other strange reason, oh well

Here is that illusive 'missing' part of the FOI I promised; actually, the whole question:

I would like to request the following under the FOI Act:

1.         Which cases has Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog been used in within the South Yorkshire Force area over the last five years?  Please provide a breakdown for each year.

2.         Which cases has Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog been used in outside the South Yorkshire Force Area over the last five years? Please provide a breakdown for each year.

3.         What does the South Yorkshire constabulary charge for Eddie the sniffer dog’s services?

4.         Please could you provide a breakdown of the fees and expenses charged for each case Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog has been deployed in outside the South Yorkshire area in the last three years?

5.         To whom is money made payable for the services of Eddie the sniffer dog?

6.  Who owns Eddie the sniffer dog?

7. What training did Eddie receive to assist him in his duties?

Exemptions Applied:
None

SYP Response:
 

1. Which cases has Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog been used in within the South Yorkshire Force area over the last five years?

Eddie, the specialist dog is no longer with South Yorkshire Police. He and his handler left the Force in August 2007. The information supplied therefore relates to his service between 2003 and 2007.

 

Information relating directly to the nature of each Victim Search Dog deployment, if made public could cause unnecessary distress to the persons and families connected with the deceased. However, we can provide the following details regarding Victim Search Dog deployments between 2003 and 2007:

 

As two teams working together: handler Ellis and dog Frankie, with handler Grime and dog Eddie have been deployed on twenty occasions, with the recovery of four bodies.

 

Working alone, Grime/Eddie have been deployed on seventeen occasions with the recovery of one body and Ellis/Frankie have been deployed on five occasions with the recovery of three bodies, this includes the recovery of two women in one grave.

 

2. Which cases has Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog been used in outside the South Yorkshire Force Area over the last five years? Please provide a breakdown for each year.

Out of the twenty occasions where the dog teams were deployed together, two deployments were in the South Yorkshire Police Force area and the remainder were out of the force.

 

All seventeen deployments for Grime/Eddie working alone were to external forces.

 

Two deployments for Ellis/Frankie were in the South Yorkshire Police Force area and the remaining three were to external forces.

 

3. What does the South Yorkshire constabulary charge for Eddie the sniffer dog’s services?

The daily charges for the deployment of Eddie were £700 per day Monday to Friday and £900 per day for weekly leave days and bank holidays. These charges have not changed over the last five years and are still applicable to date.

 

4. Please could you provide a breakdown of the fees and expenses charged for each case Eddie the Springer spaniel sniffer dog has been deployed in outside the South Yorkshire area in the last three years?

The breakdown for the fees and expenses charged for the deployment of Eddie the Springer Spaniel Victim Search Dog outside the force area are calculated as follows:

 

The figures are based on 2006-2007 costing:

 

Salary cost Police Constable: £41,900, 8 hour productive day £192.20

 

Deployment based on 16 hour day Mon to Friday more than 7 days notice

Cost for 8 hour working day

Cost for 8 hours overtime

NI on above

Cost dog for the day £10.52

Use of vehicle based on 300 miles

5% Admin fee

The total amounts to £837 but SYP would charge £700

 

Deployment based on 16 hour day Saturday or Sunday including Bank Holidays or less 7 days notice

Cost for 16 hours at double time

NI on above

Cost dog for the day £10.52

Use of vehicle based on 300 miles

5% Admin fee

The total amounts to £1035.50 but SYP would charge £900

 

5. To whom is money made payable for the services of Eddie the sniffer dog?

All monies received for the deployment of Eddie during his time with South Yorkshire Police were paid to South Yorkshire Police.

 

6. Who owns Eddie the sniffer dog?

Ownership of Eddie was transferred from South Yorkshire Police to his handler Martin Grime when he retired from the Force in 2007.

 

7. What training did Eddie receive to assist him in his duties?

When Eddie was with South Yorkshire Police he received training in line with the ACPO dog committee standards for specialist dog training. The training was and in relation to current dogs is 18 days per annum.

 

www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/dog_training_manual.doc

FOI Category:

That answer states Eddie working, alone with Grime or with another dog Frankie and another handler, Ellis.

I'm pretty sure Grime says, in his profile, that Keela was aged 3 in 2007.

So she would have been born in 2004.

Hence we can be pretty confident that Eddie and Keela never worked together.

[mercury]

So you sent a FOI request about  Eddie and from the replies "about Eddie" you conclude he never worked with Keela?

How does that kind of logic work??
And why are you totally blanking the newspaper reports which state they did work together in cases before 2007

Try and keep it simple because convoluted hasn't helped your arguments much to date

[misty]

So you sent a FOI request about  Eddie and from the replies "about Eddie" you conclude he never worked with Keela?

How does that kind of logic work??
And why are you totally blanking the newspaper reports which state they did work together in cases before 2007

Try and keep it simple because convoluted hasn't helped your arguments much to date

Does the newspaper report actually name Eddie?

[mercury]

Does the newspaper report actually name Eddie?

Named both Eddie and keela on same two cases
Read from page 21 here

[ferryman]

So you sent a FOI request about  Eddie and from the replies "about Eddie" you conclude he never worked with Keela?

How does that kind of logic work??
And why are you totally blanking the newspaper reports which state they did work together in cases before 2007

Try and keep it simple because convoluted hasn't helped your arguments much to date

Wasn't my question, but that's by-the-bye.

Still the question, indeed, asks alone about Eddie.

Why then, in answering, is there a refrence to Eddie working alone, Eddie working with another dog (Frankie) and another handler, but NO reference to Keela (if, indeed, Keela and Eddie worked together before PdL)?

[mercury]

Wasn't my question, but that's by-the-bye.

Still the question, indeed, asks alone about Eddie.

Why then, in answering, is there a refrence to Eddie working alone, Eddie working with another dog (Frankie) and another handler, but NO reference to Keela (if, indeed, Keela and Eddie worked together before PdL)?

Who knows, perhaps they thought you were asking about vrds, perhaps because you didn't ask, perhaps because keela was new despite having been used a few times together, people are not robots or computers, perhaps send them another request and seal it

[ferryman]

Here is the reference for the FOI question and answer I submitted:

Freedom of Information request 20090062 can be found on our disclosure log via the following link

 

http://www.southyorkshire.police.uk/foi/disclosurelog/sniffer-dog-deployments-costs