Did Eddie and Keela work as a team prior to the Madeleine McCann case?

[mercury]

Here is the reference for the FOI question and answer I submitted:

Freedom of Information request 20090062 can be found on our disclosure log via the following link

 

http://www.southyorkshire.police.uk/foi/disclosurelog/sniffer-dog-deployments-costs

Not sure why you are posting that, it's been quoted and referenced in full enough times by you and others...it says nothng about Keela, other publications do, so the answer to your Op remains a big YES unless you can disprove it, which you can't, so I'd save my energy

[ferryman]

Not sure why you are posting that, it's been quoted and referenced in full enough times by you and others...it says nothng about Keela, other publications do, so the answer to your Op remains a big YES unless you can disprove it, which you can't, so I'd save my energy

Because it gives Eddie's full career history and says nothing about Keela.

If Eddie had worked with Keela there would be reference to Eddie working alone, Eddie working with Frankie and Eddie working with Keela.

There is no reference to Keela.

Hence it is for others to explain where these, apparent, articles making reference to Eddie and Keela working together came from ....

[pathfinder73]

Because it gives Eddie's full career history and says nothing about Keela.

If Eddie had worked with Keela there would be reference to Eddie working alone, Eddie working with Frankie and Eddie working with Keela.

There is no reference to Keela.

Hence it is for others to explain where these, apparent, articles making reference to Eddie and Keela working together came from ....

Eddie and Frankie did the same job so worked together at the same time. Keela was a human blood only dog. MG brought both dogs over to the FBI body farm and they passed all tests with flying colours. Blood tests for Keela.

The FBI considers them -- Martin Grime and his 7-year-old, English Springer Spaniel, Eddie -- two of the best in the law enforcement speciality of canine forensics, able to find evidence everyone else missed.

Keela worked on the attempted murder of young mum Abigail Witchells in Surrey in 2005, and has even been to America to demonstrate her skills to the FBI.

When Keela was working on the Abigail Witchalls case she found eight piece of blood-stained clothing in just one day.

A dog diary about Keela on the South Yorkshire Police website when she was six months old says she and Eddie live "with my dad" at home in Bawtry, Doncaster.

It reads: "He is going to train me to search for very small spots of blood at crime scenes, so small that the humans can't see it.

"My very sensitive nose will be able to smell the blood and I will show Dad where it is. He can then show the scientists so that they can take samples."

http://www.thestar.co.uk/features/south-yorks-sniffer-dogs-in-maddie-hunt-1-360107

[pathfinder73]

24 April 2004
Yorkshire Post
Kate O'Hara

And PCs Martin Grime and John Ellis and their dogs, Eddie and Frankie, have already recorded a success in the first of their grisly investigations. Last week they found the body of pensioner Attracta Harron in Ulster. A 21-year-old student had been charged with her murder, but detectives had failed to find her body until the Yorkshire team joined the search.

The South Yorkshire officers and their dogs have also been called in to help with the hunt for the body of Arlene Arkinson, who disappeared nearly a decade ago, aged 15, on her way home to Co Tyrone, from a disco.

Robert Howard: Child killer and rapist dies in prison custody
4 October 2015

The convicted child killer and rapist Robert Howard has died in prison custody at a hospital in England.
The 71-year-old Irish native was serving a life sentence for raping and killing 14-year-old Hanna Williams from London, whose body was found in 2002.
He was also a suspect in the murder of the County Tyrone teenager Arlene Arkinson who went missing after going to a disco in County Donegal in 1994.
He was charged with murdering the 15-year-old but was acquitted in 2005.
The jury was not told that Howard had a history of sexual violence and by then he was already serving a life term for killing and raping Hanna Williams.
Arlene, a schoolgirl from Castlederg, was last seen alive in a car driven by Howard.
She has been missing, presumed dead, for 21 years. A number of searches have been carried out at various locations, but her body has never been found.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34438413

[ferryman]

Eddie and Frankie did the same job so worked together at the same time. Keela was a human blood only dog. MG brought both dogs over to the FBI body farm and they passed all tests with flying colours. Blood tests for Keela.

The FBI considers them -- Martin Grime and his 7-year-old, English Springer Spaniel, Eddie -- two of the best in the law enforcement speciality of canine forensics, able to find evidence everyone else missed.

Keela worked on the attempted murder of young mum Abigail Witchells in Surrey in 2005, and has even been to America to demonstrate her skills to the FBI.

When Keela was working on the Abigail Witchalls case she found eight piece of blood-stained clothing in just one day.

A dog diary about Keela on the South Yorkshire Police website when she was six months old says she and Eddie live "with my dad" at home in Bawtry, Doncaster.

It reads: "He is going to train me to search for very small spots of blood at crime scenes, so small that the humans can't see it.

"My very sensitive nose will be able to smell the blood and I will show Dad where it is. He can then show the scientists so that they can take samples."

http://www.thestar.co.uk/features/south-yorks-sniffer-dogs-in-maddie-hunt-1-360107

The information supplied therefore relates to his service between 2003 and 2007.

The foi answer itemising 37 deployments for Eddie in that period, some working with Frankie and Ellis, some working alone with Grime.

Keela (Grime tells us) was aged 3 in 2007, so would have been born in 2004.  She wouldn't have been on-stream as a working dog until (probably) some point in 2005.

The answer above gives the full breakdown of Eddie's (SYP) career, referencing cases working alone with Grime AND cases working with Frankie and Ellis.

None with Keela.

Why is that?

[G-Unit]

Why would SYP, for the first time, have deployed Eddie and Keela together in PdL?

Why not?

[ferryman]

Why not?

Have we, at least, reached agreement that Eddie and Keela were not deployed together before PdL?

[G-Unit]

Have we, at least, reached agreement that Eddie and Keela were not deployed together before PdL?

I neither know nor care, actually. I just wondered why it matters.

[G-Unit]

I've had a quick look and it seems Mark Harrison recommended the use of a team consisting of an EVRD and a CSI dog. Perhaps he was mindful of cost, as he only seems to have recommended using one handler;

The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim
Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed.

Currently only costs for the EVRD and CSI are available.
The daily rate for this dog team is 1000 Euros. Flight travel costs for handler and dogs could be 2750 Euros. Veterinary costs: U.K. and Portugal to comply with Pet Passports scheme 450 Euros. Accommodation, subsistence and vehicle transportation would incur extra charge.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

[ferryman]

I've had a quick look and it seems Mark Harrison recommended the use of a team consisting of an EVRD and a CSI dog. Perhaps he was mindful of cost, as he only seems to have recommended using one handler;

The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim
Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed.

Currently only costs for the EVRD and CSI are available.
The daily rate for this dog team is 1000 Euros. Flight travel costs for handler and dogs could be 2750 Euros. Veterinary costs: U.K. and Portugal to comply with Pet Passports scheme 450 Euros. Accommodation, subsistence and vehicle transportation would incur extra charge.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

According to one of the articles on here, the CSI dog (Keela) was used in the Ian Huntley investigation (about 2 years before she was born).

Clever, that ....

[pathfinder73]

Have we, at least, reached agreement that Eddie and Keela were not deployed together before PdL?

No you are wrong.

Martin Grime, who handles both Eddie and Keela, said today: "Obviously the body had been found already, so we went into investigative mode and the dogs were brought to Waterford and Dublin.

"Eddie would be tasked to tell us where the body had been before it was found and would indicate any clothing that would have come into contact with the body.

"Keela was there to find any blood traces.

"We cannot comment on whether the dogs found anything as the investigation is still ongoing."

In June this year, both dogs were taken to an unspecified location in the USA to help locate a two-year-old girl who has disappeared from her home.

Eddie led detectives to a creek beside an American Civil War graveyard which was subsequently drained.

Investigations in this case are also ongoing.

The dogs' trip to the US occurred shortly after Eddie returned to Ulster earlier this year for a third time to help in the hunt for missing Arlene Arkinson.

The Tyrone teenager went missing after leaving a disco in Bundoran, Co Donegal, on August 13, 1994.

Mr Grime said today: "We are now waiting to here about the Arlene Arkinson case. A review on that is due shortly. We don't give up."

A garda spokeswoman said today that investigations into the death of Ms Walsh were ongoing.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/attracta-sniffer-dog-joins-hunt-for-new-killer-28114027.html

[mercury]

According to one of the articles on here, the CSI dog (Keela) was used in the Ian Huntley investigation (about 2 years before she was born).

Clever, that ....

I don't think anyone has said Keela was used in that case and I have scanned this thread, did I miss it? If so, can you point out which article it was?

As for your continuing to insist that E & K never worked together before summer 2007, (whilst not stating why ths matters even if they hadn't) even when presented with more than one piece of evidence that they did, what can I say ?

[ferryman]

I don't think anyone has said Keela was used in that case and I have scanned this thread, did I miss it? If so, can you point out which article it was?

As for your continuing to insist that E & K never worked together before summer 2007, (whilst not stating why ths matters even if they hadn't) even when presented with more than one piece of evidence that they did, what can I say ?

The dogs were brought to Waterford to help gardai with their probe into the murder of Meg Walsh (35) on October 1. The animals recently helped the FBI track down a multiple murderer in Nashville, Tennessee.
The four dogs include the spaniel, Keela, the only known animal in the world capable of detecting and following a human blood-scent.
British police inspector Mark Harrison, of the National Centre for Police Excellence (NCPE), said the hounds had been used in the hunt for the murderer of Holly Wells (10) and Jessica Chapman (10) in Soham, Cambridgeshire, in August 2002.
The dogs ultimately helped bring 29-year-old school caretaker Ian Huntley to justice.
"The dogs that we have here include two from South Yorkshire Police and one of those is the only one in the world trained to detect human blood," said Insp Harrison. "The other is a victim recovery dog and helps us find human remains."
"The other two dogs are specially trained to follow a specific scent, an individual scent," he added.
Mr Harrison said that the dog unit was deployed in Waterford after gardai there had asked for "special assistance" in relation to the case of Margaret Walsh.
The British dog teams were yesterday working on multiple sites around Waterford, including Ms Walsh's Ballinakill home. "These dogs assist us in what we call investigative intelligence - they help us to piece together the jigsaw of the sequence of events that may have happened in this case," said Inspector Harris.
"In addition to that they look for hard and physical evidence. By way of example, the human blood dog can detect blood that is not visible to the human eye."
Insp Harrison added that the team were pleased with their work to date in Waterford. "We have detected quite a few things of interest of intelligence and we will continue to do that," he said. "The picture at the moment is quite incomplete and we will be working with the Garda detectives in hopefully completing the sequence of events."
The skilled team have also helped deliver crucial breakthroughs in previous cases such as the horrific murder of Attracta Harron in Northern Ireland.
It is expected the British dog team will conclude their work on the Meg Walsh case today but they will be available for longer.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-dog-team-used-to-help-gardai-sniff-out-clues-26360760.html

Eddie was 7 in 2007 so he might have been on-stream in 2002.

But Keela was 3 in 2007 and wouldn't even have been a twinkle in her mother's eye in 2002 ....

Either way, I'm not sure sniffer dogs were used in the Soham enquiry, because the girls' bodies were found without the aid of dogs (I think, but I would need to check)

Edited to replace correct link

[stephen25000]

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/key-question-is-who-killed-meg-walsh-1.922528

Eddie was 7 in 2007 so he might have been on-stream in 2002.

But Keela was 3 in 2007 and wouldn't even have been a twinkle in her mother's eye in 2002 ....

Either way, I'm not sure sniffer dogs were used in the Soham enquiry, because the girls' bodies were found without the aid of dogs (I think, but I would need to check)

Why are you denying that Eddie and Keela worked together before PDL ?

[pathfinder73]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-dog-team-used-to-help-gardai-sniff-out-clues-26360760.html

Eddie was 7 in 2007 so he might have been on-stream in 2002.

But Keela was 3 in 2007 and wouldn't even have been a twinkle in her mother's eye in 2002 ....

Either way, I'm not sure sniffer dogs were used in the Soham enquiry, because the girls' bodies were found without the aid of dogs (I think, but I would need to check)

Edited to replace correct link

If Mark Harrison said they worked on the Soham murders then they did. Unbelievable.


31 December 2005

Keela, a 16-month-old springer spaniel, can sniff out the smallest samples of human blood - even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.

The South Yorkshire Police dog has already helped forces across the country, including working on the high-profile stabbing of Abigail Witchalls in Surrey, and is hired out at £530 per day, plus expenses.

If she worked every day of the year, she would earn almost £200,000 -around £70,000 more than her force's Chief Constable. Now forces worldwide have expressed interest in her specialist training and Keela will be travelling to America in the New Year to assist the FBI with two murder inquiries.

A South Yorkshire force spokeswoman said the crime scene investigation dog has saved more then £200,000 nationally since April this year, helping with investigations in Ireland, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Surrey and the Thames Valley areas.

Her handler, PC Martin Grime, has been responsible for training Keela, along with National Search Adviser Mark Harrison, since June last year. Then the eight-week-old puppy became the centre of an experiment to see whether she could be trained to work as part of the team.

Unlike ordinary police dogs, Keela has never taken part in the usual six-week training course but has been trained, bit by bit, by PC Grime every day.

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com/2005/12/pooch-is-top-dog-for-police-salaries.html