Author Topic: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?  (Read 118990 times)

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Offline misty

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #255 on: October 09, 2015, 12:11:29 AM »
We have been told that sceptics who supported Kerry Needham had tweeted awful things about the McCanns on the OFB account's timeline and that's why the webmaster blocked the account. Are you now saying this is untrue and the reason was because she didn't like certain supporters of Kerry's avatars ?

I hadn't seen any of those avatars posted earlier prior to tonight, so I've no idea whose accounts they are attached to or how long they've been supporting the search for Ben (if that is indeed their sole purpose for following the account). I HAVE seen offensive posts on OFB by known MM sceptic accounts. However, I don't spend my life on social media so I've probably missed a lot more.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #256 on: October 09, 2015, 12:13:33 AM »
I hadn't seen any of those avatars posted earlier prior to tonight, so I've no idea whose accounts they are attached to or how long they've been supporting the search for Ben (if that is indeed their sole purpose for following the account). I HAVE seen offensive posts on OFB by known MM sceptic accounts. However, I don't spend my life on social media so I've probably missed a lot more.

So you will be able to reproduce them here ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #257 on: October 09, 2015, 12:20:32 AM »
So you will be able to reproduce them here ?

You know full well they've been deleted. But if you look at court reporter naked chest muscle man's F/B account you should be able to see an offensive & threatening picture which had been posted on there.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #258 on: October 09, 2015, 12:29:57 AM »
You know full well they've been deleted. But if you look at court reporter naked chest muscle man's F/B account you should be able to see an offensive & threatening picture which had been posted on there.

But surely they were screen capped by the faithful so the world ( and his brother ) could see the atrocious tweets that made the webmaster block the OFB account ? BL's account was deleted yet supporters still had copies of months of her tweets so why no copies of these horrendous specimens ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #259 on: October 09, 2015, 12:40:46 AM »
But surely they were screen capped by the faithful so the world ( and his brother ) could see the atrocious tweets that made the webmaster block the OFB account ? BL's account was deleted yet supporters still had copies of months of her tweets so why no copies of these horrendous specimens ?

Again - you mistake me for someone who's in the loop. My picture folder is used mainly for family stuff, not screenshots of abuse directed at other folk. What's in yours?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #260 on: October 09, 2015, 12:48:58 AM »
Again - you mistake me for someone who's in the loop. My picture folder is used mainly for family stuff, not screenshots of abuse directed at other folk. What's in yours?

Oh I think you're being much to coy misty.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #261 on: October 09, 2015, 12:54:52 AM »
Oh I think you're being much to coy misty.

No, Faith - I'm just not that obsessed.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #262 on: October 09, 2015, 01:06:28 AM »
No, Faith - I'm just not that obsessed.

 Priceless  @)(++(* !!

Night, night misty.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #263 on: October 09, 2015, 01:20:25 AM »
Priceless  @)(++(* !!

Night, night misty.

Night, Faith. (emoticons not functioning my end)

Offline G-Unit

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #264 on: October 09, 2015, 09:08:48 AM »


I have given quotes by the McCanns in the past which contradict each other. I have never said they lied, it's up to those reading my posts to draw their own conclusions. Usually people conclude they were confused, upset, mistaken or whatever other explanation they can think of.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 11:26:57 AM by Admin »
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Offline Benice

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #265 on: October 09, 2015, 09:15:27 AM »
Calling me an alcoholic shoplifter you mean? Why that in particular I wonder? Oh well. I would probably laugh because I haven't had an alcoholic drink for years, and I am completely honest. Everyone who knows me would laugh uproariously too. Then I might call up the newspaper and ask where on earth they got the story and give them the true facts.

I'm sure the 'fallibility of memory' idea is sufficient to satisfy you, but why do you think that? Two of the degrees which need a better than average memory are medicine and law. Six doctors and a lawyer seem to have memories like sieves in this case. I remember more about the night of 3rd May than they do. Kate McCann had a bath and a shower. David Payne forgot he saw Kate in a towel. Kate saw open curtains which became closed. Gerry thought he was at high tea to collect Madeleine but wasn't seen there. He had no idea who left the table to check on their children. He missed the fact that Russell's daughter was sick and Russell was missing for a while. He wasn't listening when the jokes about Jane 'relieving Russell' were going round the table. He didn't remember which door he used. He didn't remember which side of the road he was on. Matthew thought the McCann children's bedroom had two windows. He also thought he could see a child through the solid end of a travel cot. Kate forgot she told the other women she was worried about leaving the patio doors open, and has since said repeatedly that she never even thought about it. I could go on, but I'm sure you've got the picture now.

So you would find it funny to be publicly libelled as an alcoholic shoplifter in the local newspaper!  I have to say that really surprises me G-Unit.     I would be shocked and angry and demanding a retraction and an apology.  I certainly wouldn't be laughing.  And neither would my friends or family.

On the subject of 'memory'.   Once again I feel you have no ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes i.e. no empathy.     The McCanns and their friends had been suddenly plunged into a nightmare situation - the stress and trauma would be immense and long lasting IMO.     I would not expect them to be able to calmly remember every mundane detail of that day - most of which was completely unimportant and they had no reason  to carefully commit every minute of it to memory.   It was only after Madeleine was taken it took on any importance.

Fortunately the police are well aware of the fallibility of memory and therefore do not find it all surprising that witnesses can give vastly different accounts of the same incident.

Quote  (again)
 
In a crime situation memory is influenced by many factors such as stress, the presence of a weapon and even just the desire to help police solve the crime.

"Police know how fallible the memory can be," says Steve Retford, a former head of the investigative skills unit at GMP and now specialist interviewing adviser with the force.

"They also know this is usually not through mischievousness on the part of the witnesses, but through stress and shock."

Take the case of Jean Charles de Menezes, shot at Stockwell Tube station in 2005 by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber.

Eyewitnesses said he had vaulted a ticket barrier when running away from the police. In fact it was later shown by CCTV that Mr Menezes had walked through the barriers, having picked up a free newspaper, and only ran when he saw his train arriving.
End quote

ALSO

Quote from DC Ferguson (JT's rogatory statement)

4078    “You know, we can take a statement from people, if an incident happened outside and there was a group of people watching it, everybody would have a different take on what they had seen”.
Unquote.

 It is also known that witnesses can later remember something which they had previously forgotten.  That is why everyone knows what ''having your memory jogged'' means.   It is also normal for policemen to ask witnesses to contact them straightaway if they later remember anything else.

Are you saying none of the above is applicable to the McCanns or their friends?

IMO the instances you quote would not be regarded as suspicious in any way by SY - especially as they would be able to speak to the witnesses themselves if needs be - and unlike us  - did not have to rely only on their translated statements. 

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #266 on: October 09, 2015, 09:17:24 AM »
I have given quotes by the McCanns in the past which contradict each other. I have never said they lied, it's up to those reading my posts to draw their own conclusions. Usually people conclude they were confused, upset, mistaken or whatever other explanation they can think of.

good to see you don't think they are lying

Offline Benice

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #267 on: October 09, 2015, 09:57:59 AM »
And what would be wrong with answering the questions honestly ?

I don't see ANY questions on that list that she would have difficulty in answering honestly -  including the three I quoted. 

However, IMO once she did answer -  the PJ could put any interpretation they liked on her answers - or even just say they didn't believe her.   Maybe it would even have ended in her arrest?  Who knows.

Fortunately she took her Portuguese lawyer's advice and so removed that possibility. 

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #268 on: October 09, 2015, 10:02:31 AM »
I don't see ANY questions on that list that she would have difficulty in answering honestly -  including the three I quoted. 

However, IMO once she did answer -  the PJ could put any interpretation they liked on her answers - or even just say they didn't believe her.   Maybe it would even have ended in her arrest?  Who knows.

Fortunately she took her Portuguese lawyer's advice and so removed that possibility.

if kate had answered those questions there would have been another 48...its a recognised police tactic...sahe was totally right to tell the police to put up or shut up

Offline G-Unit

Re: Are the McCanns too sensitive to alternative points of view?
« Reply #269 on: October 09, 2015, 10:06:37 AM »
So you would find it funny to be publicly libelled as an alcoholic shoplifter in the local newspaper!  I have to say that really surprises me G-Unit.     I would be shocked and angry and demanding a retraction and an apology.  I certainly wouldn't be laughing.  And neither would my friends or family.

On the subject of 'memory'.   Once again I feel you have no ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes i.e. no empathy.     The McCanns and their friends had been suddenly plunged into a nightmare situation - the stress and trauma would be immense and long lasting IMO.     I would not expect them to be able to calmly remember every mundane detail of that day - most of which was completely unimportant and they had no reason  to carefully commit every minute of it to memory.   It was only after Madeleine was taken it took on any importance.

Fortunately the police are well aware of the fallibility of memory and therefore do not find it all surprising that witnesses can give vastly different accounts of the same incident.

Quote  (again)
 
In a crime situation memory is influenced by many factors such as stress, the presence of a weapon and even just the desire to help police solve the crime.

"Police know how fallible the memory can be," says Steve Retford, a former head of the investigative skills unit at GMP and now specialist interviewing adviser with the force.

"They also know this is usually not through mischievousness on the part of the witnesses, but through stress and shock."

Take the case of Jean Charles de Menezes, shot at Stockwell Tube station in 2005 by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber.

Eyewitnesses said he had vaulted a ticket barrier when running away from the police. In fact it was later shown by CCTV that Mr Menezes had walked through the barriers, having picked up a free newspaper, and only ran when he saw his train arriving.
End quote

ALSO

Quote from DC Ferguson (JT's rogatory statement)

4078    “You know, we can take a statement from people, if an incident happened outside and there was a group of people watching it, everybody would have a different take on what they had seen”.
Unquote.

 It is also known that witnesses can later remember something which they had previously forgotten.  That is why everyone knows what ''having your memory jogged'' means.   It is also normal for policemen to ask witnesses to contact them straightaway if they later remember anything else.

Are you saying none of the above is applicable to the McCanns or their friends?

IMO the instances you quote would not be regarded as suspicious in any way by SY - especially as they would be able to speak to the witnesses themselves if needs be - and unlike us  - did not have to rely only on their translated statements.

I'm not surprised you'd be upset, sense of humour failure? I'm so glad the police accept so many discrepancies in statements. Makes one wonder why they take them. Perhaps Kate McCann just 'thought' she'd seen an open window and shutters? You know, like those people who saw someone vaulting a ticket barrier? Perhaps the person seen by Jane Tanner was actually going from right to left, which would fit with the creche dad idea? Some people do confuse left and right. Perhaps they guessed at the checking times, after all, they weren't doing it by the clock. They may even have mistaken the time of the alarm, having no interest in time? Perhaps we should disregard everything they ever said.
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