Author Topic: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?  (Read 52235 times)

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Offline mercury

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2015, 11:28:13 PM »
As an example, try googling Lord McAlpine and trending.

Don't be silly

That was an example of defamatory gossip
Chalk and cheese
As I said,  a policeman exploring theories and believing one is he more likely,  is not on the same level by any stretch, but it really is not your problem in any case



ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2015, 11:33:08 PM »
Don't be silly

That was an example of defamatory gossip
Chalk and cheese
As I said,  a policeman exploring theories and believing one is he more likely,  is not on the same level by any stretch, but it really is not your problem in any case

I am being contextual, factually accurate and sensible.

At least by English law.  No clue how the same concepts work through in Portugal.


Offline mercury

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2015, 11:39:48 PM »
I am being contextual, factually accurate and sensible.

At least by English law.  No clue how the same concepts work through in Portugal.

English law has zilch to do with Portuguese law so not even sure why you are bothering to bring it up, besides, you would have tobe sure YOUR interpretation of a "string of words"  would be same interpretation for a judge in any potential case, that is never happening, so you're wasting your time IMO

As I keep saying it's not libellous for policemen to have theories


ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2015, 11:44:43 PM »
English law has zilch to do with Portuguese law so not even sure why you are bothering to bring it up, besides, you would have tobe sure YOUR interpretation of a "string of words"  would be same interpretation for a judge in any potential case, that is never happening, so you're wasting your time IMO

As I keep saying it's not libellous for policemen to have theories

If they confine those theories to what the Portuguese term the process, true.

Amaral's problem is that he didn't.

Offline mercury

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2015, 11:48:15 PM »
If they confine those theories to what the Portuguese term the process, true.

Amaral's problem is that he didn't.

He wanted to clear his name from the massive onslaught he suffered at the hands of the British press and the McCann machine and write about his experiences....I don't blame him...he's done NOTHNG different much from Kate McCann with her book, so there you go




ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2015, 12:04:51 AM »
He wanted to clear his name from the massive onslaught he suffered at the hands of the British press and the McCann machine and write about his experiences....I don't blame him...he's done NOTHNG different much from Kate McCann with her book, so there you go

If Amaral had had his way, two innocent and grieving parents would be rotting in a Portuguese jail.

No clue what would have become of the twins and all hope for Madeleine would be lost.

Offline pegasus

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #111 on: October 13, 2015, 01:29:16 AM »
Amaral's exact words were: we talked about death by others, not murder.
...(snip)
In the el mundo article the words printed are "hemos hablado de muerte por terceros no de homicidio" and Mercedes translated that spanish accurately into the english you post. But the original words spoken by Mr Amaral in the interview were portuguese IMO. It is abundantly clear from everything else that Mr Amaral says in the interview, that the original spoken portuguese was probably something similar in meaning to "we're talking about accidental death, not murder".
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 01:43:56 AM by pegasus »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #112 on: October 13, 2015, 07:10:37 AM »
In the el mundo article the words printed are "hemos hablado de muerte por terceros no de homicidio" and Mercedes translated that spanish accurately into the english you post. But the original words spoken by Mr Amaral in the interview were portuguese IMO. It is abundantly clear from everything else that Mr Amaral says in the interview, that the original spoken portuguese was probably something similar in meaning to "we're talking about accidental death, not murder".

Firstly, thank you for confirming that the English translation is an accurate rending of the Portuguese original.

Secondly, by English libel law, by introducing the subject of murder, even in the way that he did, that would amount to libel.

Here is a (contrived) comparable example:

They say Fred murdered her, but I don't believe a word.

Now, assuming that the context makes clear who, exactly, her is, and assuming that Fred (in context) would be instantly identifiable to readers, the above statement would be construed as libel in English law if there is no definitive proof linking Fred to the murder.

However, compare this sentence by contrast:

They say Fred murdered her, but I know that's not true, because at the time of the murder, Fred was in Australia with me.

Assuming it could be proved that the person who makes the statement and Fred were in Australia together at the time of the murder the above statement would not be libel.

Put concisely, to repeat a libel is to be guilty of libel, unless context makes clear that the person who is the subject of the statement cannot be misconstrued or thought of as in some way applicable to the statement made.

That is by English law.

The point about Amaral's statement is that the first (shelved) enquiry was a murder enquiry.

That is abundantly clear from Harrison's reports.

What I don't know is whether (by Portuguese law) the same applies.

Offline pegasus

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #113 on: October 13, 2015, 07:48:34 AM »
Firstly, thank you for confirming that the English translation is an accurate rending of the Portuguese original.

Secondly, by English libel law, by introducing the subject of murder, even in the way that he did, that would amount to libel.

Here is a (contrived) comparable example:

They say Fred murdered her, but I don't believe a word.

Now, assuming that the context makes clear who, exactly, her is, and assuming that Fred (in context) would be instantly identifiable to readers, the above statement would be construed as libel in English law if there is no definitive proof linking Fred to the murder.

However, compare this sentence by contrast:

They say Fred murdered her, but I know that's not true, because at the time of the murder, Fred was in Australia with me.

Assuming it could be proved that the person who makes the statement and Fred were in Australia together at the time of the murder the above statement would not be libel.

Put concisely, to repeat a libel is to be guilty of libel, unless context makes clear that the person who is the subject of the statement cannot be misconstrued or thought of as in some way applicable to the statement made.

That is by English law.

The point about Amaral's statement is that the first (shelved) enquiry was a murder enquiry.

That is abundantly clear from Harrison's reports.

What I don't know is whether (by Portuguese law) the same applies.
No, I try to explain better. Mr Amaral speaks portuguese. The newspaper article is in spanish. They are two different languages.
The portuguese to spanish translation of this sentence is incorrect IMO. The translation from the incorrect spanish translation into english is correct in that it accurately keeps the incorrectness of the spanish.

It is obvious from the context that neither the english nor the spanish are what Mr Amaral actually said in portuguese. Throughout the interview he is very clear that he is talking only about accident.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 07:52:55 AM by pegasus »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2015, 07:52:31 AM »
And it highlights the difficulties in accurate translating

Offline pegasus

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2015, 08:09:17 AM »
And it highlights the difficulties in accurate translating
It highlights the importance of realising that journos sometimes mistranslate things.
The worst example was the BBC who took Mr Amaral saying in portuguese "Fala com os McCann" and falsely claimed he was speaking english and saying "F the Mccanns".
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 08:15:22 AM by pegasus »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #116 on: October 13, 2015, 08:13:51 AM »
It highlights the importance of realising that journos sometimes mistranslate things.
The worst example was the BBC who took Mr Amaral saying in portuguese "Fala com os McCann" and falsely claimed he was speaking english and saying "F the Mccanns".

Then it highlights how much of the reporting and translated statements may contain errors

Offline Eleanor

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2015, 08:25:41 AM »
It highlights the importance of realising that journos sometimes mistranslate things.
The worst example was the BBC who took Mr Amaral saying in portuguese "Fala com os McCann" and falsely claimed he was speaking english and saying "F the Mccanns".

We don't know what he said because it was bleeped out.  So we only have the word of Portuguese posters.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #118 on: October 13, 2015, 08:28:48 AM »
He said that he didn't believe they murdered them.

Or more specifically: we talked about death by others not murder.

By English law, and by introducing the topic of murder in that way, he would be committing libel, by planting the idea of murder, albeit obliquely, in the mind of the unwary reader.

Portuguese law might be completely different, I've no idea.

That's not what you said the other day as regards Amaral.

Would you care to repeat it ?

Offline pegasus

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #119 on: October 13, 2015, 08:37:15 AM »
Then it highlights how much of the reporting and translated statements may contain errors
It is clear that search expert MH spent a great deal of time identifying possible locations where a body might have been concealed. This was the purpose of his survey of PDL by air and on foot in July 2007, as accurately described by Mr Amaral IMO.