Author Topic: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?  (Read 52229 times)

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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #135 on: October 13, 2015, 10:56:00 AM »
Could well constitute manslaughter
But as part of my initial degree involved pharmacology I can state that calpol does not cause drowsiness

Though it is one of the symptoms of paracetamol poisoning.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #136 on: October 13, 2015, 10:57:31 AM »
Calpol is for pain relief (straight paracetomaol) but there is an erroneous belief among some parents that it can also have a sedative effect.

I'm certain the McCanns (as both doctors) were under no such illusion.

In any event, they never used it on that holiday.

How do you know , what they did or didn't use.

You weren't there.

Offline Benice

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #137 on: October 13, 2015, 11:02:22 AM »
Calpol is for pain relief (straight paracetomaol) but there is an erroneous belief among some parents that it can also have a sedative effect.

I'm certain the McCanns (as both doctors) were under no such illusion.

In any event, they never used it on that holiday.

From Amarals book.  and apart from other misinformation contained in it  - IMO a clear attempt to convince his readers that calpol was used on the children as a sedative.

Quote
One of the police officers who went to the McCanns' home in England, reported that a medical monitoring chart for Madeleine was posted in the kitchen. This referred to her sleep problems and made clear that she was waking several times in the night. The paternal grandfather stated that Kate gave the little girl - and also the twins - Calpol, a medication designed to facilitate falling asleep. That seems to be a common practice in Great Britain; they even talk about a "Calpol generation." In recent years, the possible presence of an antihistamine with sedative effects in Calpol has aroused great controversy. Recently, the same laboratory put Calpol Night on the market, whose ingredients clearly list that it contains an antihistamine.

The mother admits having taken some to Portugal. She insists though that there is no calming effect, its being composed solely of paracetamol, and that she did not give any of it to her daughter during the holiday. At the time of her disappearance, Madeleine was sleeping in the same room as the twins. The latter, in spite of the noise, the mother's screaming and the comings and goings, did not wake up, as if they had been given sedatives. Would there not be a link between that difficulty in falling asleep and Madeleine's tragic end?


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #138 on: October 13, 2015, 11:04:11 AM »
From Amarals book.  and apart from other misinformation contained in it  - IMO a clear attempt to convince his readers that calpol was used on the children as a sedative.

Quote
One of the police officers who went to the McCanns' home in England, reported that a medical monitoring chart for Madeleine was posted in the kitchen. This referred to her sleep problems and made clear that she was waking several times in the night. The paternal grandfather stated that Kate gave the little girl - and also the twins - Calpol, a medication designed to facilitate falling asleep. That seems to be a common practice in Great Britain; they even talk about a "Calpol generation." In recent years, the possible presence of an antihistamine with sedative effects in Calpol has aroused great controversy. Recently, the same laboratory put Calpol Night on the market, whose ingredients clearly list that it contains an antihistamine.

The mother admits having taken some to Portugal. She insists though that there is no calming effect, its being composed solely of paracetamol, and that she did not give any of it to her daughter during the holiday. At the time of her disappearance, Madeleine was sleeping in the same room as the twins. The latter, in spite of the noise, the mother's screaming and the comings and goings, did not wake up, as if they had been given sedatives. Would there not be a link between that difficulty in falling asleep and Madeleine's tragic end?


Talk about desperation.

Now where does Amaral use the 'M' word in respect to the mccanns ?



Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #139 on: October 13, 2015, 11:05:54 AM »
Though it is one of the symptoms of paracetamol poisoning.

There was a paediatrician on TVs at the time who stated that it would have been impossible to give Maddie enough calpol to cause poisoning ... She would have been violently sick first
Paracetamol poisoning causes a long death with the patient being very ill for some time
Calpol is a non starter

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #140 on: October 13, 2015, 11:13:34 AM »
There was a paediatrician on TVs at the time who stated that it would have been impossible to give Maddie enough calpol to cause poisoning ... She would have been violently sick first
Paracetamol poisoning causes a long death with the patient being very ill for some time
Calpol is a non starter

I agree totally.

However, a child waking up groggily from sleep is hardly unknown.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #141 on: October 13, 2015, 11:14:22 AM »
From Amarals book.  and apart from other misinformation contained in it  - IMO a clear attempt to convince his readers that calpol was used on the children as a sedative.

Quote
One of the police officers who went to the McCanns' home in England, reported that a medical monitoring chart for Madeleine was posted in the kitchen. This referred to her sleep problems and made clear that she was waking several times in the night. The paternal grandfather stated that Kate gave the little girl - and also the twins - Calpol, a medication designed to facilitate falling asleep. That seems to be a common practice in Great Britain; they even talk about a "Calpol generation." In recent years, the possible presence of an antihistamine with sedative effects in Calpol has aroused great controversy. Recently, the same laboratory put Calpol Night on the market, whose ingredients clearly list that it contains an antihistamine.

The mother admits having taken some to Portugal. She insists though that there is no calming effect, its being composed solely of paracetamol, and that she did not give any of it to her daughter during the holiday. At the time of her disappearance, Madeleine was sleeping in the same room as the twins. The latter, in spite of the noise, the mother's screaming and the comings and goings, did not wake up, as if they had been given sedatives. Would there not be a link between that difficulty in falling asleep and Madeleine's tragic end?


Good spot Benice.

There is also the passage in Kate's book where she describes that they had gone away (somewhere, I forgotten now where) and they put Madeleine down to sleep for the night, and she slept right through.

That was the point where Madeleine's sleep problems became a thing of the past.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #142 on: October 13, 2015, 11:16:22 AM »
Good spot Benice.

There is also the passage in Kate's book where she describes that they had gone away (somewhere, I forgotten now where) and they put Madeleine down to sleep for the night, and she slept right through.

That was the point where Madeleine's sleep problems became a thing of the past.

Where is the 'M' word ?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #143 on: October 13, 2015, 11:20:53 AM »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #144 on: October 13, 2015, 11:24:03 AM »
El Mundo.

By Amaral accusing the mccanns of 'M'.

Where is it ?

It's not in the book.

Why do you make things up ferryman ?

Offline Carana

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #145 on: October 13, 2015, 11:24:18 AM »


Amaral merely states what in his opinion was the most plausible scenario given the results received from Harrison. He does not state that his opinion and those expressed by Harrison are the same,  in reality a somewhat subtle difference.

Harrison was too street savvy to make specific accusations in his Reports, however, Amaral felt he was not similiarly constrained by Portuguese law.

That's certainly not how it reads to me.

I agree with FM on this point.

According to GA, Harrison's conclusions confirmed his team's worst fears, i.e., that she was definitely dead. All Harrison was doing was what should have happened back in mid-May 07: it was part of a ground-clearing exercise, as it can't be ruled out that she died and her body dumped somewhere nearby. That seems fairly standard to me.

 Even if we were expecting it, his conclusions confirm our worst fears. The most plausible scenario is the following: there is no doubt that Madeleine is dead, and her body is hidden somewhere in the area around Praia da Luz.




Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #146 on: October 13, 2015, 11:33:31 AM »
I agree totally.

However, a child waking up groggily from sleep is hardly unknown.
But falling and sustaining an immediate fatal head wound is unknown

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #147 on: October 13, 2015, 11:36:18 AM »
But falling and sustaining an immediate fatal head wound is unknown

I gave an alternative, some time ago.

As to a head wound causing death immediately, CAN YOU PROVE IT CAN'T HAPPEN  ?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #148 on: October 13, 2015, 11:39:07 AM »
I gave an alternative, some time ago.

As to a head wound causing death immediately, CAN YOU PROVE IT CAN'T HAPPEN  ?
You didn't
A head wound causes a sub Dural  haematoma that takes time to build up sufficient pressure to cause death

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #149 on: October 13, 2015, 11:42:54 AM »
You didn't
A head wound causes a sub Dural  haematoma that takes time to build up sufficient pressure to cause death

i'm well aware of that, as I was when I posted that before.