Author Topic: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?  (Read 52228 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #165 on: October 13, 2015, 03:02:33 PM »
It was a fairly standard possibility to explore. I have no problem with that, I doubt that the McCanns do, either. Ground-clearing is important, but should have been done right at the beginning.

I have never found what statistics Harrison presented. Whatever it was is quite possibly related to when a child was found to have died or had been murdered. There are lots of missing children out there, so I don't see how statistics can be established on who was responsible in the absence of any evidence.

In this case, no trace of Madeleine was found one way or another. Ergo, she could still be alive.

ETA: AND, whatever statistics say means nothing in terms of what happened to any specific child.

From Harrison's reports, the only reference to statistics I can find is this, right at the end of his final report:

I am currently of the opinion on the available information and statistical datasets that if death has occurred, that it is possible that Madeleine McCann’s body has been disposed into the sea at Praia da Luz. (See my second report entitled “NPIA OP TASK Search Doc Beach and Marine”).

ETA: I think that reference also gives the lie to the notion that Harrison is the one who turned investigation into one for a little girl assumed dead.

He was handed a brief by the PJ to explore that Madeleine was dead, indeed, had been murdered, and worked to it.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 03:05:23 PM by ferryman »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #166 on: October 13, 2015, 03:15:45 PM »
It was a fairly standard possibility to explore. I have no problem with that, I doubt that the McCanns do, either. Ground-clearing is important, but should have been done right at the beginning.

I have never found what statistics Harrison presented. Whatever it was is quite possibly related to when a child was found to have died or had been murdered. There are lots of missing children out there, so I don't see how statistics can be established on who was responsible in the absence of any evidence.

In this case, no trace of Madeleine was found one way or another. Ergo, she could still be alive.

ETA: AND, whatever statistics say means nothing in terms of what happened to any specific child.

I think it would be possible to use statistics to rule the McCanns out

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2015, 03:16:13 PM »
From Amarals book.  and apart from other misinformation contained in it  - IMO a clear attempt to convince his readers that calpol was used on the children as a sedative.

Quote
One of the police officers who went to the McCanns' home in England, reported that a medical monitoring chart for Madeleine was posted in the kitchen. This referred to her sleep problems and made clear that she was waking several times in the night. The paternal grandfather stated that Kate gave the little girl - and also the twins - Calpol, a medication designed to facilitate falling asleep. That seems to be a common practice in Great Britain; they even talk about a "Calpol generation." In recent years, the possible presence of an antihistamine with sedative effects in Calpol has aroused great controversy. Recently, the same laboratory put Calpol Night on the market, whose ingredients clearly list that it contains an antihistamine.

The mother admits having taken some to Portugal. She insists though that there is no calming effect, its being composed solely of paracetamol, and that she did not give any of it to her daughter during the holiday. At the time of her disappearance, Madeleine was sleeping in the same room as the twins. The latter, in spite of the noise, the mother's screaming and the comings and goings, did not wake up, as if they had been given sedatives. Would there not be a link between that difficulty in falling asleep and Madeleine's tragic end?


So not specifically a sedative then.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #168 on: October 13, 2015, 03:17:17 PM »
I think it would be possible to use statistics to rule the McCanns out

It would be interesting to see that...
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2015, 03:23:12 PM »
So not specifically a sedative then.

Drugs that facilitate falling asleep are sedatives.

Calpol does not facilitate falling asleep and [therefore] is not a sedative ....

Offline Brietta

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2015, 03:24:40 PM »
It was a fairly standard possibility to explore. I have no problem with that, I doubt that the McCanns do, either. Ground-clearing is important, but should have been done right at the beginning.

I have never found what statistics Harrison presented. Whatever it was is quite possibly related to when a child was found to have died or had been murdered. There are lots of missing children out there, so I don't see how statistics can be established on who was responsible in the absence of any evidence.

In this case, no trace of Madeleine was found one way or another. Ergo, she could still be alive.

ETA: AND, whatever statistics say means nothing in terms of what happened to any specific child.

I agree with you on the statistics, Carana.
I think it  an extraordinary fact that what Harrison was asked to do had apparently not been carried out right at the very beginning.

I also find it jaw dropping that the elementary process of eliminating the Drs McCann in the early stages has somehow become their fault and not that of the investigation.  But I think that may be because the investigation had decided early on to rule them in and did not deviate from that course, so in fact they had been investigated from the beginning.

Going back to statistics, it has been noted that often stranger abduction resulted in the child being found close to the place from which s\he had been taken, sometimes alive more often not.
We do know that the same areas visited by Harrison had been searched and cleared.  So what was the point?  The Portuguese had used search and rescue teams.

Was it something to do with a misplaced belief about the power and ability of the British dogs to do something the Portuguese dogs were incapable of, since I believe they must have covered that ground already in the course of the initial searches?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carana

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #171 on: October 13, 2015, 04:17:07 PM »
From Harrison's reports, the only reference to statistics I can find is this, right at the end of his final report:

I am currently of the opinion on the available information and statistical datasets that if death has occurred, that it is possible that Madeleine McCann’s body has been disposed into the sea at Praia da Luz. (See my second report entitled “NPIA OP TASK Search Doc Beach and Marine”).

ETA: I think that reference also gives the lie to the notion that Harrison is the one who turned investigation into one for a little girl assumed dead.

He was handed a brief by the PJ to explore that Madeleine was dead, indeed, had been murdered, and worked to it.

Agree. The key point being IFFFF. From everything that I've read about standard police procedure, I just don't see anything odd about checking if a body could be somewhere nearby.

Despite the translation issue, Amaral seems to make this sound more ominous than it was - it's not. Just procedure that should have been carried out shortly after her disappearance.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #172 on: October 13, 2015, 10:50:38 PM »
I agree with you on the statistics, Carana.
I think it  an extraordinary fact that what Harrison was asked to do had apparently not been carried out right at the very beginning.

I also find it jaw dropping that the elementary process of eliminating the Drs McCann in the early stages has somehow become their fault and not that of the investigation.  But I think that may be because the investigation had decided early on to rule them in and did not deviate from that course, so in fact they had been investigated from the beginning.

Going back to statistics, it has been noted that often stranger abduction resulted in the child being found close to the place from which s\he had been taken, sometimes alive more often not.
We do know that the same areas visited by Harrison had been searched and cleared.  So what was the point?  The Portuguese had used search and rescue teams.

Was it something to do with a misplaced belief about the power and ability of the British dogs to do something the Portuguese dogs were incapable of, since I believe they must have covered that ground already in the course of the initial searches?

The PJ were following all leads like the alleged abductor Jane saw while the McCanns were being protected. Are you mad said Mr Buck.

GA: On the first night, a dossier about the family was requested, which the English authorities never sent. It was said that they were connected to commissions that emitted opinion reports on nuclear issues, but none of that was ever confirmed officially. Connections to political parties were also mentioned.

Did the British police send information about the McCanns and their friends?

No. They never sent the information that we requested. In fact, they did send only once, financial information. They stated that the couple had a mortgage and that there was no knowledge of any credit or debit cards. How didn’t they have any? The registration of the rental car mentions the card numbers. Concerning the other members of the group, the information was also only that.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #173 on: October 13, 2015, 11:03:04 PM »
It's a joke when the PJ get the abuse when the Brits didn't help them from the start. Maybe they're spending 12 million + because they are rightly ashamed of their actions and I don't think it's no mistake that the Gaspar statement arrived after Amaral left.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #174 on: October 13, 2015, 11:42:48 PM »
Drugs that facilitate falling asleep are sedatives.

Calpol does not facilitate falling asleep and [therefore] is not a sedative ....
As every doctor knows, no way is it a sedative drug or anything like that.

Offline mercury

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #175 on: October 14, 2015, 01:05:56 AM »
The PJ were following all leads like the alleged abductor Jane saw while the McCanns were being protected. Are you mad said Mr Buck.

GA: On the first night, a dossier about the family was requested, which the English authorities never sent. It was said that they were connected to commissions that emitted opinion reports on nuclear issues, but none of that was ever confirmed officially. Connections to political parties were also mentioned.

Did the British police send information about the McCanns and their friends?

No. They never sent the information that we requested. In fact, they did send only once, financial information. They stated that the couple had a mortgage and that there was no knowledge of any credit or debit cards. How didn’t they have any? The registration of the rental car mentions the card numbers. Concerning the other members of the group, the information was also only that.


That does seem like a bit of a joke.....unless somene can explain otherwise..

Ps PF who did Buck call mad?
Ref the nuclear power that thing, I never knew that was any part of any police discussion...well well you learn something new every day
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 01:34:39 AM by mercury »

Offline mercury

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #176 on: October 14, 2015, 01:14:03 AM »
As every doctor knows, no way is it a sedative drug or anything like that.

Oh this? Yes, the interviewer never mentioned sedatives I suppose, he (Gerry)  did, in ref to calpol question, but they were by that time in Gerrys mind (referring to that) seeing as it had been a theory in the papers for a while , body languagers might have a different view rightly or wrongly
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 01:35:41 AM by mercury »

Offline Carana

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #177 on: October 14, 2015, 07:56:17 AM »

That does seem like a bit of a joke.....unless somene can explain otherwise..

Ps PF who did Buck call mad?
Ref the nuclear power that thing, I never knew that was any part of any police discussion...well well you learn something new every day

He missed the bottom line:

Records of current bank accounts are not automatically held. They are recorded when and if required for credit checking purposes only.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS9_FINANCIAL.htm

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #178 on: October 14, 2015, 08:29:14 AM »

That does seem like a bit of a joke.....unless somene can explain otherwise..

Ps PF who did Buck call mad?
Ref the nuclear power that thing, I never knew that was any part of any police discussion...well well you learn something new every day

He called Amaral mad for doing his job. It's in truth of the lie. He said are you mad with all the press here when Amaral wanted to take their clothes for examining. There wouldn't be any press if the McCanns and their friends did what the police told them - No media. Getting the media involved changed this case. You can't investigate the parents the media will find out and all hell will break loose.

John Buck, the British Ambassador in Lisbon at the time of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance went to Portimão to demand that the PJ immediately announce to the media – especially the British media – that the disappearance of Madeleine was an abduction and that her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann were two innocent victims.
“Immediately after Madeleine’s disappearance, when we did not yet know whether it was the case of an abduction or a different kind of crime, the PJ were obliged to issue a statement, on 5th May, announcing the abduction thesis”, announced inspector Gonçalo Amaral, emphasising that the statement had been issued in spite of his opposition and that of other inspectors participating in the inquiry.

Gonçalo Amaral was speaking yesterday in Madrid as part of an exclusive interview with SOS Madeleine McCann and Gazeta Digital.

According to sources close to the British Embassy in Lisbon, the Ambassador John Buck, previous to this intervention at the PJ in Faro and Portimão, had already discussed the affair with the Portuguese Minister for Foreign Affairs.

“In a situation like the one we were presented with, in the interest of the child, no possibility would have been discarded, even the possibility concerning the parents, those that were close and the friends. Above all there was not the slightest indication of abduction”, Amaral concluded, emphasising that the “rest of the investigation has proved that”.
 
“They took advantage of the space we gave them, it was a mistake on our part.”

Also on 5th May 2007, two days after the announcement of Madeleine’s disappearance, the police, according to Amaral, would commit an important error: “We were busy checking all the traces that came with the Ambassador. Traces that were moreover, found to be false”.

New instructions from the regional national directorate of the PJ, given after the intervention of two British diplomats – Ambassador John Buck and Consul Bill Henderson – turned the investigator’s attention away from the McCanns.

Kate and Gerry McCann, for the first and only time, went to hand in clothes to be washed in the Complex laundry, including Madeleine’s clothes, which the inspectors only heard about two days later. Too late, according to Amaral.

“At the time we had not established exactly which clothes Gerry was wearing on the night of the disappearance nor which clothes were handed in to be washed on 5th May”, says Gonçalo Amaral.

 
It was by means of the statements by various members of staff from the complex, linked to the laundry service, that the inspectors were to learn that the McCanns had their children’s clothes – those of Madeleine and also those of Sean and Amélie – washed.
“That would never have happened without the intervention of Mark Warner and, in particular, of the Ambassador. They took advantage of the space we gave them, It was a mistake on our part”, admits Gonçalo Amaral.

 
“Last Saturday (05/05/2007) I received a bag of clothes brought in by Mark Warner staff, and was told expressly that these belonged to Madeleine’s family – there was adult clothing (male and female) and children’s clothing… “, states one of the laundry workers.
Although the laundry worker only remembers a pink skirt belonging to Madeleine, she has no uncertainty in confirming that there were also other clothes belonging to the small British girl, which has also been confirmed to the police by other colleagues.

Daily Express: Madeleine: British Diplomat had doubts about McCanns
3 December 2007 (no longer on-line)

A British diplomat warned the Foreign Office of concerns regarding Mad­eleine McCann’s parents, it emerged last night. Doubts about Kate and Gerry McCann were raised almost immediately by an official sent to Praia da Luz due to what he considered to be “inconsistencies” in the couple’s testimonies about the night the four-year-old vanished. The warning was contained in a classified document sent from the Algarve to the Foreign Office days after Madeleine’s disappearance. Details of the letter have been leaked through the British diplomatic mission in Brussels to the respected Belgian newspaper Derniere Heure.

The unnamed diplomat voices his concern about the “confused declarations” as to the whereabouts of Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends in the final hours before Madeleine’s disappearance. He also mentions the couple’s “lack of co-operation” with the Portuguese police in the light of instructions from London suggesting consular staff “overstretch their authority and put pressure on the Portuguese authorities”. The document also asks for confirmation of orders sent by the Foreign Office in London the day before, commanding embassy staff to give “all possible assistance to the McCann couple”.

Diplomats on the Algarve were told the McCanns had to be “accompanied at all times during any contact with the Portuguese police” by a member of consular staff or by British police officers sent out from the UK. The letter, sent just days after Madeleine disappeared, warns of the risks of siding with the McCanns so completely. Excerpts published in a report by La Derniere Heure quote the diplomat as saying: “With the greatest respect, I would like to make you aware of the risks and implications to our relationship with the Portuguese authorities, if you consider the possible involvement of the couple. “Please confirm to me, in the light of these concerns, that we want to continue to be closely involved in the case as was requested in your previous ­message.”

A huge team of diplomats have been involved in the case since Gerry McCann asked the Foreign Office for help. In an unprecedented move, the then Prime Minister Tony Blair despatched special envoy Sheree Dodd, a former Fleet Street journalist, to Portugal to act as a “med­ia liaison officer” for the McCann family. Direct government communications with the McCanns came to an abrupt halt, however, when the couple were made official suspects in the case in September.

Portuguese detectives believe it is possible Madeleine died as the result of an accident on May 3 in the family’s holiday apartment and that her parents hid and later disposed of her body with the help of their friends. The couple have always said they had nothing to do with their daughter’s disappearance. The Belgian report says it is highly significant that almost all of the diplomats involved at the outset have now been taken off the case.

Special envoy Sheree Dodd has since resigned from the Foreign Office, the British consul in the Algarve Bill Henderson has retired and the British ambassador to Portugal John Buck is no longer in Portugal. Last night the Foreign Office refused to comment on the report.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Did Goncalo Amaral misrepresent Harrison's findings?
« Reply #179 on: October 14, 2015, 11:31:38 AM »
He called Amaral mad for doing his job. It's in truth of the lie. He said are you mad with all the press here when Amaral wanted to take their clothes for examining. There wouldn't be any press if the McCanns and their friends did what the police told them - No media. Getting the media involved changed this case. You can't investigate the parents the media will find out and all hell will break loose.

John Buck, the British Ambassador in Lisbon at the time of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance went to Portimão to demand that the PJ immediately announce to the media – especially the British media – that the disappearance of Madeleine was an abduction and that her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann were two innocent victims.
“Immediately after Madeleine’s disappearance, when we did not yet know whether it was the case of an abduction or a different kind of crime, the PJ were obliged to issue a statement, on 5th May, announcing the abduction thesis”, announced inspector Gonçalo Amaral, emphasising that the statement had been issued in spite of his opposition and that of other inspectors participating in the inquiry.

Gonçalo Amaral was speaking yesterday in Madrid as part of an exclusive interview with SOS Madeleine McCann and Gazeta Digital.

According to sources close to the British Embassy in Lisbon, the Ambassador John Buck, previous to this intervention at the PJ in Faro and Portimão, had already discussed the affair with the Portuguese Minister for Foreign Affairs.

“In a situation like the one we were presented with, in the interest of the child, no possibility would have been discarded, even the possibility concerning the parents, those that were close and the friends. Above all there was not the slightest indication of abduction”, Amaral concluded, emphasising that the “rest of the investigation has proved that”.
 
“They took advantage of the space we gave them, it was a mistake on our part.”

Also on 5th May 2007, two days after the announcement of Madeleine’s disappearance, the police, according to Amaral, would commit an important error: “We were busy checking all the traces that came with the Ambassador. Traces that were moreover, found to be false”.

New instructions from the regional national directorate of the PJ, given after the intervention of two British diplomats – Ambassador John Buck and Consul Bill Henderson – turned the investigator’s attention away from the McCanns.

Kate and Gerry McCann, for the first and only time, went to hand in clothes to be washed in the Complex laundry, including Madeleine’s clothes, which the inspectors only heard about two days later. Too late, according to Amaral.

“At the time we had not established exactly which clothes Gerry was wearing on the night of the disappearance nor which clothes were handed in to be washed on 5th May”, says Gonçalo Amaral.

 
It was by means of the statements by various members of staff from the complex, linked to the laundry service, that the inspectors were to learn that the McCanns had their children’s clothes – those of Madeleine and also those of Sean and Amélie – washed.
“That would never have happened without the intervention of Mark Warner and, in particular, of the Ambassador. They took advantage of the space we gave them, It was a mistake on our part”, admits Gonçalo Amaral.

 
“Last Saturday (05/05/2007) I received a bag of clothes brought in by Mark Warner staff, and was told expressly that these belonged to Madeleine’s family – there was adult clothing (male and female) and children’s clothing… “, states one of the laundry workers.
Although the laundry worker only remembers a pink skirt belonging to Madeleine, she has no uncertainty in confirming that there were also other clothes belonging to the small British girl, which has also been confirmed to the police by other colleagues.

Daily Express: Madeleine: British Diplomat had doubts about McCanns
3 December 2007 (no longer on-line)

A British diplomat warned the Foreign Office of concerns regarding Mad­eleine McCann’s parents, it emerged last night. Doubts about Kate and Gerry McCann were raised almost immediately by an official sent to Praia da Luz due to what he considered to be “inconsistencies” in the couple’s testimonies about the night the four-year-old vanished. The warning was contained in a classified document sent from the Algarve to the Foreign Office days after Madeleine’s disappearance. Details of the letter have been leaked through the British diplomatic mission in Brussels to the respected Belgian newspaper Derniere Heure.

The unnamed diplomat voices his concern about the “confused declarations” as to the whereabouts of Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends in the final hours before Madeleine’s disappearance. He also mentions the couple’s “lack of co-operation” with the Portuguese police in the light of instructions from London suggesting consular staff “overstretch their authority and put pressure on the Portuguese authorities”. The document also asks for confirmation of orders sent by the Foreign Office in London the day before, commanding embassy staff to give “all possible assistance to the McCann couple”.

Diplomats on the Algarve were told the McCanns had to be “accompanied at all times during any contact with the Portuguese police” by a member of consular staff or by British police officers sent out from the UK. The letter, sent just days after Madeleine disappeared, warns of the risks of siding with the McCanns so completely. Excerpts published in a report by La Derniere Heure quote the diplomat as saying: “With the greatest respect, I would like to make you aware of the risks and implications to our relationship with the Portuguese authorities, if you consider the possible involvement of the couple. “Please confirm to me, in the light of these concerns, that we want to continue to be closely involved in the case as was requested in your previous ­message.”

A huge team of diplomats have been involved in the case since Gerry McCann asked the Foreign Office for help. In an unprecedented move, the then Prime Minister Tony Blair despatched special envoy Sheree Dodd, a former Fleet Street journalist, to Portugal to act as a “med­ia liaison officer” for the McCann family. Direct government communications with the McCanns came to an abrupt halt, however, when the couple were made official suspects in the case in September.

Portuguese detectives believe it is possible Madeleine died as the result of an accident on May 3 in the family’s holiday apartment and that her parents hid and later disposed of her body with the help of their friends. The couple have always said they had nothing to do with their daughter’s disappearance. The Belgian report says it is highly significant that almost all of the diplomats involved at the outset have now been taken off the case.

Special envoy Sheree Dodd has since resigned from the Foreign Office, the British consul in the Algarve Bill Henderson has retired and the British ambassador to Portugal John Buck is no longer in Portugal. Last night the Foreign Office refused to comment on the report.

I think it is likely that particular hare was up and running before the police said "no media".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey