Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?

[Myster]

The slipper just visible to the left of the bible in the main bedroom was probably one of a pair, the second being hidden behind or under the chair. It's obvious to me the clothes on that chair were Nevill's (not Sheila's), placed there before he got into bed.

Even if the slipper (only one is visible) in Sheila's room was a man's, she might have borrowed a pair off Nevill if she'd forgotten to bring her own. Who knows... they could have been hers, and preferred them to women's. It looks newish, clean and fleece-lined.

[Caroline]

The slipper just visible to the left of the bible in the main bedroom was probably one of a pair, the second being hidden behind or under the chair. It's obvious to me the clothes on that chair were Nevill's (not Sheila's), placed there before he got into bed.

Even if the slipper (only one is visible) in Sheila's room was a man's, she might have borrowed a pair off Nevill if she'd forgotten to bring her own. Who knows... they could have been hers, and preferred them to women's. It looks newish, clean and fleece-lined.

The picture isn't clear enough to tell if that is a man's slipper whereas the other one is.

[Caroline]

It is claimed by some that NB slept in SC's room on the night of the tragedy.  One reason given for this is that a pair of slippers, which give the appearance of belonging to a male, were found in SC's room albeit to the left (looking from the foot of the bed towards the beds head) of the spare bed which had SC's toiletries on.

However a slipper was also found NB's side of the bed in the main bedroom between bullet DRH1 and the bible:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=tcn4foej82apqf9d1infavq614&action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=199

The idea that SC slept with June is imo barmey.  Reasons given for SC/June sleeping together:

- wanted to read bible together
- SC wanted comfort from June or vice-versa
- SC wanted to be closer to the twins to listen out for them waking

The Pargeters stayed at WHF last week-end July so it's surely reasonable that the slippers belonged to AP and he left them behind; or he borrowed a spare pair from NB; or the Bambers provided slippers for guests?  If I remeber correctly from CAL's book the Pargeters had two daughters with them so its possible the daughets slept in the twins room with AP and his wife (Irena I think?) sleeping in SC's room.  Did JB's room have a bed in it?  If so single, double or twins?

But we don't know that it did belong to AP so that suggestion and the rest of you speculation can also be viewed as 'barmey'. 

[Holly Goodhead]

But we don't know that it did belong to AP so that suggestion and the rest of you speculation can also be viewed as 'barmey'.

Speculative yes but I wouldn't go as far as putting it into the "barmey" category.

The SoC photo shows the slippers to the left of the spare bed with the toiletries on.  If the slippers were worn by NB and he slept in SC's bed surely he would take them off before getting into bed and they would be to the left or right of SC's bed?  I guess Crispy could have moved them 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5849

CAL's book describes JB's room as having a "narrow bed".  So it seems likely the Pargeters and their daughters would have the same sleeping arrangments as the twins and SC.  The Pargeters departed from WHF on the Sunday before SC and the twins arrived.

I dont think parents share beds with adult children unless circumstances dictate eg lack of an alternative bed?  Perhaps it's different in the North?  There's overwhelming evidence the June/SC relationship was strained at the best of times and that's putting it mildly.  The idea of the pair cosying up to read the bible and/or offering each other comfort by close proximity and/or so SC could listen out for the twins is IMO barmey.  If SC felt she needed to be near the twins, or the twins wanted to be near her, then I'm sure NB could have moved another single into SC's room.  Or SC could have slept in JB's old room and been directly opposite the twins room. 

What makes you think NB slept in SC's bed and SC slept where NB usually slept?

[scipio_usmc]

The picture isn't clear enough to tell if that is a man's slipper whereas the other one is.

Nonsense.  The photo is blurry plus the shoe is half hidden under the bed- we can't see the front of it which for all you know has a bow on it or was pointed thus indicating it was definitely a female's shoe.

It is your unsupported opinion it is Nevill's shoe, indeed if his shoe had been in there police would have been likely to note it.

You take this unsupported claim then craft around it the notion Sheila slept with her mother which is absurd.  She was a grown woman not a child.  My paternal grandmother and adult aunt slept in the same bed only after my grandfather died and even then only when they visited a place where there was only one spare bed so they had to share it or if so many people visited my grandmother that my aunt gave up her bed to the visitor and thus slept with my grandmother.

When we were 10 or so my grandfather was still alive and we stayed over because our parents went away and we stayed in my aunt's bed with her. She didn't sleep with my grandmother and us with our grandfather.

My maternal grandmother never shared a bed with my mom. My mom would have to sleep on the floor if there was no room anywhere else.

The notion Sheila wanted to sleep with her mom for comfort is just absurd.

If that had happened then Jeremy would have been screwed because Nevill would have come from the other room and disarmed him. He shot Nevill's while Nevill was not facing him.  He shot Nevill's left profile as Nevill was getting out of bed.

[Myster]

I dont think parents share beds with adult children unless circumstances dictate eg lack of an alternative bed?  Perhaps it's different in the North?

Of course it's different in poor Northern Numpty Land!.. parents here always share beds with adult children because they're cheaper than Fashys.

[Myster]

I wonder if Crispy stayed with Sheila that night. Is that a dog bed and a red woollen blanket with a few dog hairs on it in the foreground?...

[Caroline]

Nonsense.  The photo is blurry plus the shoe is half hidden under the bed- we can't see the front of it which for all you know has a bow on it or was pointed thus indicating it was definitely a female's shoe.

It is your unsupported opinion it is Nevill's shoe, indeed if his shoe had been in there police would have been likely to note it.

You take this unsupported claim then craft around it the notion Sheila slept with her mother which is absurd.  She was a grown woman not a child.  My paternal grandmother and adult aunt slept in the same bed only after my grandfather died and even then only when they visited a place where there was only one spare bed so they had to share it or if so many people visited my grandmother that my aunt gave up her bed to the visitor and thus slept with my grandmother.

When we were 10 or so my grandfather was still alive and we stayed over because our parents went away and we stayed in my aunt's bed with her. She didn't sleep with my grandmother and us with our grandfather.

My maternal grandmother never shared a bed with my mom. My mom would have to sleep on the floor if there was no room anywhere else.

The notion Sheila wanted to sleep with her mom for comfort is just absurd.

If that had happened then Jeremy would have been screwed because Nevill would have come from the other room and disarmed him. He shot Nevill's while Nevill was not facing him.  He shot Nevill's left profile as Nevill was getting out of bed.

Well, does anyone else think it's a ladies slipper and just might be sporting a bow anywhere? However, I never said Sheila slept with June for comfort, I said she could have perhaps been there because she wanted to be closer to the twins or because June was worried about her state and didn't want her being alone. I believe that Nevill was outside of the main bedroom or just inside the door when he was shot - there is no evidence to suggest he was inside because there is no blood and all of the casings (except those used to kill Sheila) are located near the door - I don't believe that Jeremy would ever have let Nevill pass him in the bedroom had he been vulnerable enough to have been laying down and he would have dealt with him first. Perhaps it was a shock that Nevill wasn't where is was 'supposed' to be - which is how he managed to escape downstairs. Of course this is just my opinion - but it IS another way of looking at things.

[Caroline]

Speculative yes but I wouldn't go as far as putting it into the "barmey" category.

The SoC photo shows the slippers to the left of the spare bed with the toiletries on.  If the slippers were worn by NB and he slept in SC's bed surely he would take them off before getting into bed and they would be to the left or right of SC's bed?  I guess Crispy could have moved them 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5849

CAL's book describes JB's room as having a "narrow bed".  So it seems likely the Pargeters and their daughters would have the same sleeping arrangments as the twins and SC.  The Pargeters departed from WHF on the Sunday before SC and the twins arrived.

I dont think parents share beds with adult children unless circumstances dictate eg lack of an alternative bed?  Perhaps it's different in the North?  There's overwhelming evidence the June/SC relationship was strained at the best of times and that's putting it mildly.  The idea of the pair cosying up to read the bible and/or offering each other comfort by close proximity and/or so SC could listen out for the twins is IMO barmey.  If SC felt she needed to be near the twins, or the twins wanted to be near her, then I'm sure NB could have moved another single into SC's room.  Or SC could have slept in JB's old room and been directly opposite the twins room. 

What makes you think NB slept in SC's bed and SC slept where NB usually slept?

Just posted why I think Nevill may have slept elsewhere - however; ye reet aboot the North, it's any awld port n'a storm wen it comes terra bit kip, divant need a bed like. The dog basket u'l dee or even under the cheble! (wipes nose on sleeve and scratches arse!). 

[Holly Goodhead]

Is there any evidence the visible slipper is one of a pair in-situ?

[Holly Goodhead]

Well, does anyone else think it's a ladies slipper and just might be sporting a bow anywhere? However, I never said Sheila slept with June for comfort, I said she could have perhaps been there because she wanted to be closer to the twinsor because June was worried about her state and didn't want her being alone. I believe that Nevill was outside of the main bedroom or just inside the door when he was shot - there is no evidence to suggest he was inside because there is no blood and all of the casings (except those used to kill Sheila) are located near the door - I don't believe that Jeremy would ever have let Nevill pass him in the bedroom had he been vulnerable enough to have been laying down and he would have dealt with him first. Perhaps it was a shock that Nevill wasn't where is was 'supposed' to be - which is how he managed to escape downstairs. Of course this is just my opinion - but it IS another way of looking at things.

When FE called WHF circa March '85 to speak with NB re SC's state he asked if NB could come as soon as possible.  NB said he could not come until the following day.   NB and June both visited the following day and took SC to St Andrews where she was readmitted for in-patient psychiatric care.  So it appears they were not unduly concerned about SC's state? 

[Myster]

Is there any evidence the visible slipper is one of a pair in-situ?

I think you can just make out a thin black edge of another slipper above the visible one, and it isn't part of the linear carpet pattern which can be seen towards the bottom of the pic...

[Holly Goodhead]

Well, does anyone else think it's a ladies slipper and just might be sporting a bow anywhere? However, I never said Sheila slept with June for comfort, I said she could have perhaps been there because she wanted to be closer to the twins or because June was worried about her state and didn't want her being alone. I believe that Nevill was outside of the main bedroom or just inside the door when he was shot - there is no evidence to suggest he was inside because there is no blood and all of the casings (except those used to kill Sheila) are located near the door - I don't believe that Jeremy would ever have let Nevill pass him in the bedroom had he been vulnerable enough to have been laying down and he would have dealt with him first. Perhaps it was a shock that Nevill wasn't where is was 'supposed' to be - which is how he managed to escape downstairs. Of course this is just my opinion - but it IS another way of looking at things.

DC Hammersley's trial testimony states the bed was stripped and anything of evidential value removed.  However I dont think I've seen any exhibit numbers for the bedding other than June's pillow and pillowcases? 

[Holly Goodhead]

I think you can just make out a thin black edge of another slipper above the visible one, and it isn't part of the linear carpet pattern which can be seen towards the bottom of the pic...

Thanks.  Super observant. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Speculative yes but I wouldn't go as far as putting it into the "barmey" category.

The SoC photo shows the slippers to the left of the spare bed with the toiletries on.  If the slippers were worn by NB and he slept in SC's bed surely he would take them off before getting into bed and they would be to the left or right of SC's bed?  I guess Crispy could have moved them 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5849

CAL's book describes JB's room as having a "narrow bed".  So it seems likely the Pargeters and their daughters would have the same sleeping arrangments as the twins and SC.  The Pargeters departed from WHF on the Sunday before SC and the twins arrived.

I dont think parents share beds with adult children unless circumstances dictate eg lack of an alternative bed?  Perhaps it's different in the North?  There's overwhelming evidence the June/SC relationship was strained at the best of times and that's putting it mildly.  The idea of the pair cosying up to read the bible and/or offering each other comfort by close proximity and/or so SC could listen out for the twins is IMO barmey.  If SC felt she needed to be near the twins, or the twins wanted to be near her, then I'm sure NB could have moved another single into SC's room.  Or SC could have slept in JB's old room and been directly opposite the twins room. 

What makes you think NB slept in SC's bed and SC slept where NB usually slept?

Could it be that he was resentful he ended up in the "narrow bed" at a time when his immature ego was unable to cope with his sense of abandonment by his birth parents AND being resigned to the "narrow bed" by his adoptive parents?  NB and June's bed looks like it might be queen sized.  SC had the choice of two spacious looking singles.  What about the dog baskets?