Author Topic: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?  (Read 44660 times)

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Offline Myster

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2015, 10:00:05 AM »
Re 2 above and the box room located between the main bedroom and twins room am I right in thinking the two single beds were positioned vertically against the internal walls effectively shutting off the twins room and box room? 

Conversations with self:  Oh Holly do keep up.  How long have you been at this now?

There was a step down from the twins' room into the Box room and Daniel's bed was away from the adjoining wall to stop it keeling over at the bottom. The gap between the bed and rounded shelf attached to the cupboard looks wide enough to squeeze past, but it was probably easier and quicker going via the landing from the other bedrooms if anything was amiss. Photos of the Box room should exist, but only those with access to them know if it was empty or full of junk.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2015, 10:30:43 AM »
There was a step down from the twins' room into the Box room and Daniel's bed was away from the adjoining wall to stop it keeling over at the bottom. The gap between the bed and rounded shelf attached to the cupboard looks wide enough to squeeze past, but it was probably easier and quicker going via the landing from the other bedrooms if anything was amiss. Photos of the Box room should exist, but only those with access to them know if it was empty or full of junk.

Thank you Myster.  I will have a rummage around and see what I can find out about that particular box room.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2015, 04:58:15 PM »
I take it that the love-in in Dur-ham which was called off is now on again?  ?{)(**

Pointless even trying to be civil. - I don't mind banter but when you can't get passed 3 or four posts without a dig in respect to past BS, it just gets old and very, very boring.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2015, 03:10:23 PM »
Thank you Myster.  I will have a rummage around and see what I can find out about that particular box room.

I've read through the raid team stats AGAIN from this forums library and the only mention of the box room between the main bedroom and twins room appear to be the following:

"Having searched this room [main room] and a small lobby attached to it we moved across the landing into another bedroom which appeared to be Sheila BAMBER'S room".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=251

"I also saw a connecting door in the right hand corner of the room"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=156.0;attach=98

Pity they dont make it crystal clear whether or not the doors were open or closed. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2015, 01:46:48 AM »
I'm sure I have read some blood was found on the stairs but couldnt be certain if a) I read it and b) how reliable it was if I did read it - I dont think it was in any official doc.

I dont think it would be possible for blood to fling that far from June.  Also my understanding is that once a victim sustains a gunshot wound the potential for spatter from other wounds can be affected by, for example, the lowering of blood pressure caused by first (or subseqent) gunshot wound(s). 

NB sustained gunshot wounds closer to DRH/49 than June did (I think). 

A crime scene reconstruction could potentially answer these questions. 

It appears that cartridge case ejection patterns are not that reliable:

http://www.investigativesciencesjournal.org/article/view/7104

Long ago on Blue we had the discussion and I drew a GENERAL area of where the shooter was an how the shooter would have been aiming based on the shell locations.  You need to know if it would hit the walls/headboard and ricochet because that matters.  But in general based on the ejection patter to the right and forward you get something like this (and the bullet that grazed him may have ricocheted as well so it not particularly useful) the red reflects where the bullet would be headed while the blue represents where the shell would be headed. It's crude because it simply is to illustrate a general concept. I didn't try to make it perfectly to scale.   
 



 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 01:49:36 AM by scipio_usmc »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2015, 03:47:38 PM »
Long ago on Blue we had the discussion and I drew a GENERAL area of where the shooter was an how the shooter would have been aiming based on the shell locations.  You need to know if it would hit the walls/headboard and ricochet because that matters.  But in general based on the ejection patter to the right and forward you get something like this (and the bullet that grazed him may have ricocheted as well so it not particularly useful) the red reflects where the bullet would be headed while the blue represents where the shell would be headed. It's crude because it simply is to illustrate a general concept. I didn't try to make it perfectly to scale.

None of NB's blood was found in the bedroom.  Two small spots of bloood were found on the landing, along with further blood on the stairs and a "light distribution" on the kitchen floor away where NB was found.  I'm not sure if this blood was analysed but I haven't seen any results. 

NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds upstairs.  2 entry wounds to his face and 2 entry wounds to the back of his shoulder and elbow.  If NB was in the main bedroom how did the perp manage to fire two gunshot wounds to NB's face but allow NB to escape onto the landing where the perp fired a further 2 shots as NB fled along the landing and down the stairs? 

I am certain a SoC reconstruction will show the perp was in the main bedroom shooting June and as NB appeared at the door, probably coming from the kitchen having called JB, he sustained the 2 gunshot wounds to his face.  As he turned and fled along the landing and down the stairs he sustained two further shots to the back of his shoulder and elbow.

Whose bloody fingerprints on the kitchen worktop?  Was NB attempting to finish the call or dial 999, although we know he was incapable of purposeful talk from the facial injuries, or to take possession of the ammo on the worktop to prevent the perp from reloading?  Or was in he in pain and shock from the injuries and just stumbling around?

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2015, 08:09:54 PM »
None of NB's blood was found in the bedroom.  Two small spots of bloood were found on the landing, along with further blood on the stairs and a "light distribution" on the kitchen floor away where NB was found.  I'm not sure if this blood was analysed but I haven't seen any results. 

NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds upstairs.  2 entry wounds to his face and 2 entry wounds to the back of his shoulder and elbow.  If NB was in the main bedroom how did the perp manage to fire two gunshot wounds to NB's face but allow NB to escape onto the landing where the perp fired a further 2 shots as NB fled along the landing and down the stairs? 

I am certain a SoC reconstruction will show the perp was in the main bedroom shooting June and as NB appeared at the door, probably coming from the kitchen having called JB, he sustained the 2 gunshot wounds to his face.  As he turned and fled along the landing and down the stairs he sustained two further shots to the back of his shoulder and elbow.

Whose bloody fingerprints on the kitchen worktop?  Was NB attempting to finish the call or dial 999, although we know he was incapable of purposeful talk from the facial injuries, or to take possession of the ammo on the worktop to prevent the perp from reloading?  Or was in he in pain and shock from the injuries and just stumbling around?

Wasn't sure what you meant in paragraph three at first. Wondered how could Neville be phoning Bamber when Bamber's upstairs shooting June.

Then I realised you were referring to Sheila as the shooter.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2015, 09:41:46 PM »
Wasn't sure what you meant in paragraph three at first. Wondered how could Neville be phoning Bamber when Bamber's upstairs shooting June.

Then I realised you were referring to Sheila as the shooter.

Yes quite the diplomat!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2015, 05:47:09 PM »
None of NB's blood was found in the bedroom.  Two small spots of bloood were found on the landing, along with further blood on the stairs and a "light distribution" on the kitchen floor away where NB was found.  I'm not sure if this blood was analysed but I haven't seen any results. 

NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds upstairs.  2 entry wounds to his face and 2 entry wounds to the back of his shoulder and elbow.  If NB was in the main bedroom how did the perp manage to fire two gunshot wounds to NB's face but allow NB to escape onto the landing where the perp fired a further 2 shots as NB fled along the landing and down the stairs? 

I am certain a SoC reconstruction will show the perp was in the main bedroom shooting June and as NB appeared at the door, probably coming from the kitchen having called JB, he sustained the 2 gunshot wounds to his face.  As he turned and fled along the landing and down the stairs he sustained two further shots to the back of his shoulder and elbow.

Whose bloody fingerprints on the kitchen worktop?  Was NB attempting to finish the call or dial 999, although we know he was incapable of purposeful talk from the facial injuries, or to take possession of the ammo on the worktop to prevent the perp from reloading?  Or was in he in pain and shock from the injuries and just stumbling around?

There's a diagram on Blue which I think was drawn up by the pathologist to show the position of NB's wounds.  It appears in the following vid: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMUrBhYpduY&feature=youtu.be&t=48s

You need to pause it at 48 seconds to take a detailed look. 



« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 05:50:07 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2015, 06:05:11 PM »
There's a diagram on Blue which I think was drawn up by the pathologist to show the position of NB's wounds.  It appears in the following vid: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMUrBhYpduY&feature=youtu.be&t=48s

You need to pause it at 48 seconds to take a detailed look.

Not sure what the red dot is for unless it marks where bullet no 7 didn't fully penetrate.

I posted a still from that video ages ago, but here it is again...
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline adam

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2015, 06:22:02 PM »
Are they supposed to be numbered in the order the shots were fired ?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2015, 06:30:34 PM »
Are they supposed to be numbered in the order the shots were fired ?

No definitely not.  It looks like they are numbered in order of severity.  The diagram goes hand and hand with this doc:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=205.msg2230#msg2230
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 06:34:57 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2015, 06:33:20 PM »
Are they supposed to be numbered in the order the shots were fired ?

As Holly just said...

No... they just refer to the bullet numbers with damage caused by them noted by the pathologist in his statements. 1 to 4 to the head were the final ones delivered in the kitchen, whereas 5 to 8 were received upstairs.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2015, 06:38:20 PM »
Not sure what the red dot is for unless it marks where bullet no 7 didn't fully penetrate.

I posted a still from that video ages ago, but here it is again...

Oh Myster thank you so much  8**8:/:  You are so knowledgeable on IT, photography and audio. 

I think the red dot might represent the fact that bullet fragments were seen radiologically but not at post mortem?  That's the only difference I can see.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=726
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2015, 06:44:42 PM »
Oh Myster thank you so much  8**8:/:  You are so knowledgeable on IT, photography and audio. 

I think the red dot might represent the fact that bullet fragments were seen radiologically but not at post mortem?  That's the only difference I can see.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=726

No I've got that wrong as 8 is the wound where bullet fragments could be seen radiologically but not at post mortem.  Don't know what the red dot signifies  &%+((£
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?