Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?

[adam]

As Holly just said...

No... they just refer to the bullet numbers with damage caused by them noted by the pathologist in his statements. 1 to 4 to the head were the final ones delivered in the kitchen, whereas 5 to 8 were received upstairs.

Thought not. Why would Bamber shoot a beaten and probably dead Neville in the arm.

The back and arm shots must have been while Neville was moving.

[Holly Goodhead]

Thought not. Why would Bamber shoot a beaten and probably dead Neville in the arm.

The back and arm shots must have been while Neville was moving.

1 - 4 inclusive were fired in the kitchen as per pathologist and casings

5 - 8 inclusive were fired upstairs as per casings.

Point is 5 and 6 were fired at NB's front and 7 and 8 at his back.  If NB was in the main bedroom when the perp entered from the landing and fired 5 and 6 at NB's front how did NB exit past the perp and how did he sustain 7 and 8 when his back was turned?

I can only think the perp was in the main bedroom when NB appeared at the main bedroom doorway from the landing.  The perp fired 5 and 6.  NB turned along the landing and down the stairs where he sustained 5 and 6. 

[Holly Goodhead]

1 - 4 inclusive were fired in the kitchen as per pathologist and casings

5 - 8 inclusive were fired upstairs as per casings.

Point is 5 and 6 were fired at NB's front and 7 and 8 at his back.  If NB was in the main bedroom when the perp entered from the landing and fired 5 and 6 at NB's front how did NB exit past the perp and how did he sustain 7 and 8 when his back was turned?

I can only think the perp was in the main bedroom when NB appeared at the main bedroom doorway from the landing.  The perp fired 5 and 6.  NB turned along the landing and down the stairs where he sustained 5 and 6.

Meant to say 7 and 8.  Either everyone knew what I meant or noone reads my posts 

[Myster]

Deffo the latter. 

[Holly Goodhead]

I've looked again at the diagram of NB's injuries and the pathologist report in posts #78 and #80 along with the layout of WHF.  The pathologist states wounds 5 and 6 were fired at an angle of 20 degrees downward from the horizontal position.  According to the layout of WHF:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947

2 steps precede the main bedroom so if the perp was standing just outside the main bedroom door and NB just below the 2 steps this could account for the angle of the shot?  Two casings were found just outside the bedroom door.

I've yet to figure out the casings.  Only 2 were found just outside the bedroom door.  Does the deflector plate definitely push them along a path?  I doubt there's much potential for ricochet for H&S ie if the force was substantial and the path unclear it could present a danger? 

Only 3 casings were found in the kitchen although it is thought NB sustained wounds 1 -4 incl there.  I believe an additional casing was found in the bedroom?  Or was it the stairs?

[Holly Goodhead]

Myster do you know if the rifle was fitted with a deflector plate by the manufacturers as standard or is it an optional add-on?

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US7493720

[Holly Goodhead]

Can anyone see a deflector plate?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4744.msg173626#msg173626

[Myster]

Myster do you know if the rifle was fitted with a deflector plate by the manufacturers as standard or is it an optional add-on?

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US7493720

Definitely fitted as standard - part no. 28, deflector.  Most likely to prevent stray red-hot casings jumping backwards and landing on the the rifleman, or on anyone standing to his immediate right nearby.

I'll come back to your earlier questions later as am tied up at the mo... unless someone answers in the meantime.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Myster]

Can anyone see a deflector plate?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4744.msg173626#msg173626

That's not the original Anschutz, because the wooden stock isn't damaged where his right hand is holding. If you have Murder Casebook 7, there's an identical smaller but clearer picture on page 240, where it's easier to make out the deflector.

[Holly Goodhead]

Definitely fitted as standard - part no. 28, deflector.  Most likely to prevent stray red-hot casings jumping backwards and landing on the the rifleman, or on anyone standing to his immediate right nearby.

I'll come back to your earlier questions later as am tied up at the mo... unless someone answers in the meantime.

Thanks.  But was if fitted as standard when it was purchased in Nov '84?

I don't really understand the following:

http://www.shootingandscuba.co.uk/store/22lr-anschutz-525-semi-auto-rifle

So dependent on which hand the shooter uses will determine whether the casing ejects slightly to the right or directly above?

[Holly Goodhead]

Also just noticed there's a single trigger and double trigger but it seems this is to do with accuracy of shot as opposed to making the thing more susceptible to firing twice as the term might imply to someone like myself who knows sweet fa about guns.

[Admin]

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[Myster]

Thanks.  But was if fitted as standard when it was purchased in Nov '84?

I don't really understand the following:

http://www.shootingandscuba.co.uk/store/22lr-anschutz-525-semi-auto-rifle

So dependent on which hand the shooter uses will determine whether the casing ejects slightly to the right or directly above?

The photo of Det Con Whiddon shows him holding the actual murder weapon with deflector plate, so yes it was fitted in '85.

It's self-explanatory. Whether the shooter is left or right handed, using either shoulder to rest the butt end, the deflector forces the ejected shell forward and away to the right of him or her.

[Myster]

Also just noticed there's a single trigger and double trigger but it seems this is to do with accuracy of shot as opposed to making the thing more susceptible to firing twice as the term might imply to someone like myself who knows sweet fa about guns.

No, it's only a single-triggered rifle. The assembled single trigger mechanism, part no.50, is shown disassembled in the exploded view below it, parts 52 to 70

[Myster]

I've looked again at the diagram of NB's injuries and the pathologist report in posts #78 and #80 along with the layout of WHF.  The pathologist states wounds 5 and 6 were fired at an angle of 20 degrees downward from the horizontal position.  According to the layout of WHF:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947

2 steps precede the main bedroom so if the perp was standing just outside the main bedroom door and NB just below the 2 steps this could account for the angle of the shot?  Two casings were found just outside the bedroom door.

I've yet to figure out the casings.  Only 2 were found just outside the bedroom door.  Does the deflector plate definitely push them along a path?  I doubt there's much potential for ricochet for H&S ie if the force was substantial and the path unclear it could present a danger? 

Only 3 casings were found in the kitchen although it is thought NB sustained wounds 1 -4 incl there.  I believe an additional casing was found in the bedroom?  Or was it the stairs?

As you say, it's possible that Nevill could have been shot in the shoulder and elbow as he was forced or tried to escape downstairs, although the same might have happened after being shot in the jaw and mouth when getting out of bed. His first reaction must have been to put his hand(s) up to the mouth in shock and to stem the blood flow. Once up, he might then have tried to avoid further shots by turning away to his right, stumbling to the floor perhaps on his knees when he received shots 7 and 8 to shoulder and elbow from behind. Hence the downward trajectory of the two bullets.

If the perp was standing outside the bedroom door firing shots 7 and 8 at Nevill below on the first couple of steps or lower landing, the shells are more likely to have ended up further down on the main flight and could even have tumbled into the main hall, instead of remaining on the landing area.

Those two shells found outside the bedroom were attributed to June, perhaps the final shots to her head. Why?... maybe there was a way of matching those casings to bullets recovered at autopsy. Or perhaps the firearms expert recreated the scene by imagining where the shells would land if the shots were delivered as she was lying on the floor.

According to the police and also mentioned by CAL, the missing fourth casing could have been carried upstairs because it was "stovepipe" jammed in the ejector mechanism, and was only freed by Bamber when he reached the upper landing. So it might have been one of those found there.