Could both June and Sheila have been in the master bedroom?

[APRIL]

Allegedly, it was Neville's habit to walk the dog, shower and get ready for bed downstairs, enjoying a G&T and a cigarette in the sitting room before going up to bed. As his slippers were found under the bed in the room where Sheila had been staying, it's possible that she -for whatever reason- was sleeping in her parent's room with Neville camping in her room.

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[Angelo222]

Allegedly, it was Neville's habit to walk the dog, shower and get ready for bed downstairs, enjoying a G&T and a cigarette in the sitting room before going up to bed. As his slippers were found under the bed in the room where Sheila had been staying, it's possible that she -for whatever reason- was sleeping in her parent's room with Neville camping in her room.

Could be he used that bedroom regularly, many married couples have separate bedrooms for all sorts of reasons.  An interesting point though, could be that Sheila was in the master bedroom chatting with her mother while Neville was having a smoke downstairs??

Is there anything which disproves the theory that Neville encountered the assailant while downstairs and was marched at the point of a rifle up the stairs to the master bedroom where the two women were?

[APRIL]

Could be he used that bedroom regularly, many married couples have separate bedrooms for all sorts of reasons.  An interesting point though, could be that Sheila was in the master bedroom chatting with her mother while Neville was having a smoke downstairs??

Is there anything which disproves the theory that Neville encountered the assailant while downstairs and was marched at the point of a rifle up the stairs to the master bedroom where the two women were?

The only thing I can think of is that Neville would have been the greatest threat so why not dispatch him first? The later the massacre happened the greater chance of him being in bed...............but WHICH bed? It may have been a part which didn't go to plan.

[Myster]

Allegedly, it was Neville's habit to walk the dog, shower and get ready for bed downstairs, enjoying a G&T and a cigarette in the sitting room before going up to bed. As his slippers were found under the bed in the room where Sheila had been staying, it's possible that she -for whatever reason- was sleeping in her parent's room with Neville camping in her room.

If those are Nevill's slippers to the left, then they're at the side of the wrong bed if he slept in Sheila's room. Wouldn't they be nearer to the right-hand bed?

[Myster]

Are those a farmer's day clothes and underwear sitting on the chair in the main bedroom? If so then it puts paid to the theory that he undressed downstairs. Those blue socks on the floor next to Sheila were thought to be Nevill's too.

[APRIL]

If those are Nevill's slippers to the left, then they're at the side of the wrong bed if he slept in Sheila's room. Wouldn't they be nearer to the right-hand bed?

Possibly, Myster, but I don't suffer with that particular form of OCD -and by the way they're not QUITE in alignment, Neville didn't either. It would indeed have been difficult for him to have slept in that bed as it was covered in Sheila's clutter, I imagine because Sheila had previously slept in the other bed.

[APRIL]

Are those a farmer's day clothes and underwear sitting on the chair in the main bedroom? If so then it puts paid to the theory that he undressed downstairs. Those blue socks on the floor next to Sheila were thought to be Nevill's too.

I feel very certain that I read recently -CAL?- that both Sheila and June's clothes/underwear were found in the master bedroom.

[Holly Goodhead]

According to JM's WS JB told MM which rooms the occupants would be sleeping in!

There were four bedrooms: main, twins, SC's and JB's old room.  I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere NB and June normally slept in separate rooms. 

I have seen a poster on another forum suggest June and SC were sleeping together as SC was feeling out of sorts and close proximity to June would be a comfort.  This seems most unlikely as they didn't have that sort of relationship.  Even if they were close I can't imagine a parent sharing a double bed with an adult child when the parent could sleep in an opposite twin.  If June and/or SC decided they needed to be close then surely June would move the toiletries off the spare twin in SC's room and sleep there.

How do we know the slippers were NB's?  Perhaps they were AP's from when he and his family visited and stayed over the last weekend of July.  Or AP borrowed them from NB when he stayed. 

Recent topics over the way have included attempting to assess JB based on his facial expressions in photos and written messages on funeral/flower cards.

I hope we're not going to get all knitting circleish on here 

[John]

One issue which has always bothered me is where was Sheila when her parents were being murdered?  Why did she not run to the twins room to poroitect them or was she in fact locked in her bedroom?

[Jodie]

I've always read on here that it's assumed the twins were killed first. Surely there would have been a lot of noise which would have woken them if that's not the case.

[scipio_usmc]

Allegedly, it was Neville's habit to walk the dog, shower and get ready for bed downstairs, enjoying a G&T and a cigarette in the sitting room before going up to bed. As his slippers were found under the bed in the room where Sheila had been staying, it's possible that she -for whatever reason- was sleeping in her parent's room with Neville camping in her room.

8

1) There is zero objective evidence that establishes the shoes in the crime scene photos are Nevill's slippers.  Neither the police who took the photos nor the family who cleaned up the house afterwards assert any shoes belonging to Nevill were in the room.  Some people posting on blue simply deciding from looking at the blurry photo that they feel it is Nevill's slipper.  I produced slippers looking very similar that are women's. It is simply rank speculation they are Nevilll's.

2) The notion Sheila went to sleep with her mother is absurd.  She was a grown woman and was not in the habit of sleeping with her mother.  She had her own room where her own clothes were.

3) The evidence proves beyond question the attack started in the master bedroom with 10-11 shots fired at Nevill and June.  June suffered no less than 6 shots while Nevill suffered 4. It seems unlikely that June ran past Jeremy to the other side of the bed then ran back towards him and was knocked down or fell then he finally fired his last shot between her eyes.  Much more likely is that she collapsed on her own while Nevill and Jeremy were going to the kitchen and when he returned he pull a bullet between her eyes to make sure she was dead.

It is obvious that Sheila was sleeping at the time this occurred and either didn't wake up until much later or Jeremy woke her up after killing everyone else.  The notion he shot June and then carefully staged Sheila and Nevill came in shorty after this doesn't work at all.

A) Aside from making no sense for Sheila to go to bed with June, even if the gun had 11 rounds 6 into June and 2 into Sheila leaves only 3 remaining and Nevill was shot 4 times in the bedroom before running to the kitchen.  Some of those shots mind you were fired while he was not fully upright so clearly he was seated in bed or getting out of bed when the shots were fired.  I don't believe Jeremy was standing on a chair as he was shooting.

B) If Nevill entered as he was trying to position Sheila then Nevill would have tried to jump him and the shots would be to his right side or front if he managed to shoot before Nevill could get him and there would have been a struggle at that point.  Otherwise Nevill would have actually made it to the shotguns uninjured.  Nevill was shot in the left side because he was getting out of bed and that is the side of him that was exposed.

Sheila was clearly in her own room.  She either woke up and eventually went to investigate found her mother and then Jeremy returned before she could go check on her kids and try to whisk them to safety/hide them or when Jeremy returned she was still in bed and he had to wake her up.  If she was still in bed he woke her up he didn't take her in his arms like sleeping beauty and carry her to the bedroom as Adam suggests...

     

[scipio_usmc]

I've always read on here that it's assumed the twins were killed first. Surely there would have been a lot of noise which would have woken them if that's not the case.

That assumption is not from the prosecution experts it is mainly by Jeremy supporters.

There is no way that Jeremy risked waking up his parents by shooting the boys first.  Moreover had he done so then he would have had to fight his parents with far less rounds than he did.   

He fired at least 10 and possibly 11 rounds in his first attack.  That attack was in the master bedroom. June was shot 6-7 times in this attack and Nevill 4 times.  I say 6-7 because for sure 4 shots were fired into June while she was in bed.  2 more definitely as she was in the process of getting out of bed so could have been out of the bed.  These 6 shots were all fired to her right side. The final shot was between her eyes.  This shot was not fired until after she walked around the bed to Nevill's side and then back towards the door collapsing. The shot was fired between her eyes to make sure she was dead.  Logic suggests after Jeremy was gone is when she walked around the bed and back then collapsed and that he fired this shot when he returned from the kitchen but it is not impossible for him to have done it in the initial attack.

The gun was empty and that was why thing progressed to the kitchen.  Either Jeremy ran down to get more ammo or Nevill ran to try to get a shotgun to confront Jeremy with and the pursuer caught the one fleeing in the kitchen then the struggle took place.  Jeremy needed to put the gun down to reload the magazine so could not reload until Nevill was beaten unconscious.  He reloaded then shot Nevill 4 times in the head killing him.

If he loaded only 4 rounds the gun was empty and then he fully reloaded it before going upstairs.  If he reloaded more then that meant 6 shots in the gun (1 in the chamber, 5 in the magazine).  Rather than going upstairs with only 6 shots in the gun he reloaded the magazine fully so had 11 rounds.

If when he went upstairs Sheila was in the hall looking at her dead other then he ran after her and had to kill her before the boys.  Otherwise he killed the boys first (8 shots), fired one in between June's eyes to make sure she was dead, leaving 2 for Sheila. (naturally if he went upstairs with 11 during the initial attack then it means he only went upstairs with 10 after the kitchen episode)

Jeremy feared them finding out the twins were killed after Sheila so he would have good reason to kill her last and it seems he did because even though drawback remains after several shots the blood right in the opening would likely have not been there if 8 shots had been fired subsequently.   

So in all likelihood he killed the boys 3rd and 4th and then Sheila last.

[Holly Goodhead]

I've always read on here that it's assumed the twins were killed first. Surely there would have been a lot of noise which would have woken them if that's not the case.

I've never thought the children were shot first.  Small children often sleep through a lot of noise eg house parties. 

[scipio_usmc]

I've never thought the children were shot first.  Small children often sleep through a lot of noise eg house parties.

Not just children, there are plenty of adults who have slept through things that one would expect to wake them from earthquakes to thunder, to explosions.

Nothing suggests that Sheila woke up either not just the kids but since none of them were in rooms that had a shared wall with the bedroom and the kitchen was so distant it is not very surprising.

Mind you they can wake up and then go right back to sleep as well.  In the news today they announced the arrest of a man for breaking into an apartment and raping a little girl.  She was raped in the top bunk of bunk beds.  Her brother was in the lower bunk.  He woke up as the man climbed to the top bunk but went back to sleep at first.  Only after the bed was shaking from the man penetrating her did he wake up fully and at that point run to his parents. If he had gotten up sooner the parents could have entered before the actual rape took place but it took the actual rape to wake him.  His sister crying and the man talking to her was not enough it took his bed rattling.   

People are most vulnerable in their sleep that is why common law burglary was breaking in at night. Obviously we expanded the definition since then but that was a requirement at common law back in the day.

[Holly Goodhead]

It is claimed by some that NB slept in SC's room on the night of the tragedy.  One reason given for this is that a pair of slippers, which give the appearance of belonging to a male, were found in SC's room albeit to the left (looking from the foot of the bed towards the beds head) of the spare bed which had SC's toiletries on.

However a slipper was also found NB's side of the bed in the main bedroom between bullet DRH1 and the bible:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=tcn4foej82apqf9d1infavq614&action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=199

The idea that SC slept with June is imo barmey.  Reasons given for SC/June sleeping together:

- wanted to read bible together
- SC wanted comfort from June or vice-versa
- SC wanted to be closer to the twins to listen out for them waking

The Pargeters stayed at WHF last week-end July so it's surely reasonable that the slippers belonged to AP and he left them behind; or he borrowed a spare pair from NB; or the Bambers provided slippers for guests?  If I remeber correctly from CAL's book the Pargeters had two daughters with them so its possible the daughets slept in the twins room with AP and his wife (Irena I think?) sleeping in SC's room.  Did JB's room have a bed in it?  If so single, double or twins?