Is wiggy correct about there being reasonable doubt?

[Holly Goodhead]

Relax Scipio. There will always be new posters on both forums, saying Bamber is innocent. Both today and in 50 years. It's life.

I'm certain JB's conviction will be quashed and I am equally certain there will still be posters, new and old, who will  maintain JB is guilty.  That's life.   

[scipio_usmc]

Maybe people should remember how young Julie was at the time. I remember how silly I was at her age, how all things were possible yet impossible. How boyfriends would brag about how they'd conquer the world, travel, make a million. The difference is....Bamber was a pyschopath (I'm yet to see proof of his tests) and he still is. She had no way of realising that. And, because he's a pyschopath, he copes with prison life. That's why he hasn't cracked up. An innocent man after 30 years would be totally broken.

If she told people ahead of the murders what Jeremy was saying then he would likely have been reluctant to follow through because he would be the natural suspect and his claims would likely not be believed.  Particularly if  she had said he was talking about framing Sheila for killing them.  If she told people about what he was saying who would believe Sheila did it? Her not talking is what enabled him to go through with it.   

[adam]

If she told people ahead of the murders what Jeremy was saying then he would likely have been reluctant to follow through because he would be the natural suspect and his claims would likely not be believed.  Particularly if  she had said he was talking about framing Sheila for killing them.  If she told people about what he was saying who would believe Sheila did it? Her not talking is what enabled him to go through with it.

Bamber took a bit of risk, assuming Julie didn't mention his plans to anyone, pre massacre. There was always the chance Julie told her mum or a close friend. Even if she thought Bamber was not serious.

He obviously thought Julie was sufficiently under his spell.

He wouldn't be worried about Julie, post massacre telling people how much Bamber resented his situation and relatives. That doesn't make him a killer, besides which Bamber would tell anyone else that would listen the same raw deal story.

[scipio_usmc]

Bamber took a bit of risk, assuming Julie didn't mention his plans to anyone, pre massacre. There was always the chance Julie told her mum or a close friend. Even if she thought Bamber was not serious.

He obviously thought Julie was sufficiently under his spell.

He wouldn't be worried about Julie, post massacre telling people how much Bamber resented his situation and relatives. That doesn't make him a killer, besides which Bamber would tell anyone else that would listen the same raw deal story.

The whole point is IF she had told people what he was saying and they in turn spread it around and Jeremy knew this had happened then he would likely not followed through because he immediately would be suspected and his frame job doubted.

[david1819]

The whole point is IF she had told people what he was saying and they in turn spread it around and Jeremy knew this had happened then he would likely not followed through because he immediately would be suspected and his frame job doubted.

Things like this only work in hindsight, In all situations once someone commits a horrific crime only then do people see the red flags looking back after they know what happened. A good example is the Colombine school shooting, Friends of Eric and Dylan remember them talking about shooting up the school but at the time just considered it Tongue-in-cheek,

[scipio_usmc]

Things like this only work in hindsight, In all situations once someone commits a horrific crime only then do people see the red flags looking back after they know what happened. A good example is the Colombine school shooting, Friends of Eric and Dylan remember them talking about shooting up the school but at the time just considered it Tongue-in-cheek,

I'm not blaming her like some do- mind you some believe she knew he was going to kill them and was in full accord with his plan.  I'm just saying if she talked he could not have gone through with it and she has to go through life knowing that. Something like that will definitely cause survivor guilt.  Someone in Jeremy's position who was actually innocent often has survivor guilt as well though there is no reason to and that is just generally speaking.  He had a really good reason for survivor guilt if he had been telling the truth- leaving the gun and bullets out would cause one tremendous guilt.  That he lacked such guilt made the family suspicious.

Those who don't believe Julie realized he was serious about killing them should recognize it is extremely likely she felt guilt based on the above.  That is in part why they broke up she could not stand living the lie with him. She wanted him to turn himself in.  She wasn't willing to run to police on her own but once they sought her out it was a chance at some redemption so to speak.  Maybe it was enough redemption in her eyes for her to live with herself.  Maybe she needed counseling at some point or just repressed everything and tried to forget about it who knows.