Author Topic: It is never too late to change ones mind.  (Read 14415 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

It is never too late to change ones mind.
« on: November 25, 2015, 09:27:05 AM »
I appreciate you and others have changed your stance Caroline but much of what you are now arguing against you did in fact support for some 2 years so some humility wouldn't go amiss  8((()*/

9
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 11:49:37 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline APRIL

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2015, 12:48:26 PM »
He was only 7 yoa at the time!

I appreciate you and others have changed your stance Caroline but much of what you are now arguing against you did in fact support for some 2 years so some humility wouldn't go amiss  8((()*/

Having been so vociferous in defending his innocence, it requires some humility to admit to being wrong.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 02:01:10 PM »
Having been so vociferous in defending his innocence, it requires some humility to admit to being wrong.

Lets hope then April if JB's conviction is ever quashed , which I think it will be, you haven't exhausted your capacity for humility.

I'm not sure why you think anyone takes anything you say particularly seriously when by your own admission forensics are not your thing:

"Lookout, I won't attempt to debate forensics. They're not my "thing" but I understand that even in the case of very little, circumstantial is enough and in this case, given that WHF was his second home, traces of him could have been found -and explained- all over the house. What value forensics then?"

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7129.msg337738.html#msg337738

This case isn't going to be cracked one way or another by the tel calls or JM's testimony.  It will be cracked by forensics using established branches of science.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 02:05:34 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline APRIL

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 02:32:00 PM »
Lets hope then April if JB's conviction is ever quashed , which I think it will be, you haven't exhausted your capacity for humility.

I'm not sure why you think anyone takes anything you say particularly seriously when by your own admission forensics are not your thing:

"Lookout, I won't attempt to debate forensics. They're not my "thing" but I understand that even in the case of very little, circumstantial is enough and in this case, given that WHF was his second home, traces of him could have been found -and explained- all over the house. What value forensics then?"

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7129.msg337738.html#msg337738

This case isn't going to be cracked one way or another by the tel calls or JM's testimony.  It will be cracked by forensics using established branches of science.


"I'm not sure why you think anyone takes anything you say particularly seriously....................." DO I think that, Holly or might it just be what you think I think?  I'm really not bothered about what "anyone" thinks about what I say, any more than, I imagine, are you when people disagree with what you say.

I'm glad you're keeping alive the hope that the case "will be cracked by forensics using established branches of science." You have a 50/50 chance of being right.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 05:19:57 PM »
There is sooner a chance of someone parting the Red Sea than Jeremy having his conviction quashed.  He's guilty as sin, the judges know it, the lawyers know it and the kinds of tricks resorted to in order to free guilty peopel such as saying a confession was beaten out of them so they were convicted based on illegal evidence doesn't apply here. There is nothing that will get him out of jail besides his death.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 05:36:44 PM »
There is sooner a chance of someone parting the Red Sea than Jeremy having his conviction quashed.  He's guilty as sin, the judges know it, the lawyers know it and the kinds of tricks resorted to in order to free guilty peopel such as saying a confession was beaten out of them so they were convicted based on illegal evidence doesn't apply here. There is nothing that will get him out of jail besides his death.

http://bfms.org.uk/challenging-miscarriages-of-justice/

http://www.qualitysolicitors.com/jordans/our-people/mark-newby
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2015, 06:29:08 PM »
There is sooner a chance of someone parting the Red Sea than Jeremy having his conviction quashed.  He's guilty as sin, the judges know it, the lawyers know it and the kinds of tricks resorted to in order to free guilty peopel such as saying a confession was beaten out of them so they were convicted based on illegal evidence doesn't apply here. There is nothing that will get him out of jail besides his death.

Certainly not wishful thinking.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 07:15:02 PM »
http://bfms.org.uk/challenging-miscarriages-of-justice/

http://www.qualitysolicitors.com/jordans/our-people/mark-newby

This would be like me ignoring the facts of a case and tossing the Knox/Sollecito acquittal out there and saying because of that we should believe all convictions are bogus and skip trying to actually look in detail for legitimate gripes.

When advocates are unable to find anything legitimate to latch onto they resort to such which is really just a smokescreen and waste of time.

The only way to undo the conviction and get  anew trial is to attack the main evidence that convicted him.

That main evidence is:

1) Julie's testimony
2) Proof that Sheila can't have killed herself and absence of evidence establishing she beat or killed anyone else which would have existed had she done so.

The only way to get a new trial is to undermine these.  The only way to undermine Julie's testimony would be if she recanted.  If she told someone she lied and made it up that would be new evidence that would undermine the trial testimony and likely result in a new trial.

The only way to undermine the evidence would be to use new evidence to challenge the testimony at trial that:
1) she suffered a contact wound that would result in drawback
2) new evidence that she did have GSR or other evidence on her body or clothing

Short of new independent analysis of the body and clothing there is no chance of proving she did in fact have evidence on her body and clothing.  Testing her body is impossible and clothing might be impossible and even if not will never happen.

There is no new evidence that casts doubt on her wound being a contact wound nor is there any way for experts to ever make such a determination.  They can't examine her they are stuck with the assessments of the experts who did and there is nothing in those assessments open to challenge.

There is nothing to refute the testimony that the wound would result in drawback. It is well documented that when a prior damage causes internal hemorrhaging in an area that shooting such blood filled area will result in backspatter if fired at non-contact range and drawback if fired at contact range.  There will never be some new science saying this doesn't happen.

Short of proving the wound a) was not a contact wound and thus drawback would not have been able to result
or b) it was a contact that would not result in drawback Jeremy is toast.  That is because the following flows from the implication of Sheila suffering from a contact would that would result in drawback:

If she was shot sans moderator her blood would have been in the rifle but if shot with the moderator it would have been in the moderator. 

It was in the moderator but she could not have shot herself with the moderator attached and most certainly could not have removed the moderator and put it away after she was dead.  So if shot with the moderator she was murdered and surely Jeremy killed her.
 
So as a lawyer this case is a lost cause.  There is no hope of finding any evidence to free Jeremy.  As a lawyer who wanted to help those wrongly convicted I would move on to another case because there is no hope here.  A good lawyer recognizes the key issues, explores them and then either makes their case or faces there is no hope and moves on.

 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Caroline

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 11:28:56 PM »
I appreciate you and others have changed your stance Caroline but much of what you are now arguing against you did in fact support for some 2 years so some humility wouldn't go amiss  8((()*/

I'm sure Andrea and many others who have changed their minds can explain to you that humility doesn't come into it. I have no more reason than you to express humility and as you never have, I suggest you you keep your advice to yourself. However, there is quite a lot of humility in admitting you're wrong and accepting that people like you, will TRY to use it in a pathetic attempt to discredit.

I changed my mind after learning more and asking the man himself various questions. I now know that much of what is argued boils down to nothing more than a few admin errors and some embroidery and spinning from the OS. He's guilty and won't be going anywhere any time soon.

Offline John

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2015, 11:49:15 PM »
I must admit I was originally a fence sitter but after reading thousands of pages of evidence I am firmly in the Jerry is guilty camp.  That said, I don't think I have ever found anyone who thought him guilty who now considers him innocent, it's usually the other way round.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 12:39:59 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2015, 06:50:05 AM »
I must admit I was originally a fence sitter but after reading thousands of pages of evidence I am firmly in the Jerry is guilty camp.  That said, I don't think I have ever found anyone who thought him guilty who now considers him innocent, it's usually the other way round.

I disagree with your view that the case doesn't need dissecting under a microscope:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7101.msg337933.html#msg337933

Caroline was guilty, then innocent, now guilty:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2931.msg103751.html#msg103751

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2015, 12:44:09 PM »
I disagree with your view that the case doesn't need dissecting under a microscope:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7101.msg337933.html#msg337933

Caroline was guilty, then innocent, now guilty:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2931.msg103751.html#msg103751

Thanx Holly.  I believe the White House Farm murders have already been dissected sufficiently and in sufficient detail to allow anyone to come to a decision. The only thing which will change this are advances in forensic science, new evidence, the release of documents held under PII or a confession.

The evidence points to Jeremy's guilt but there is always that 1% of doubt.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 12:47:37 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Caroline

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2015, 12:55:35 PM »
I disagree with your view that the case doesn't need dissecting under a microscope:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7101.msg337933.html#msg337933

Caroline was guilty, then innocent, now guilty:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2931.msg103751.html#msg103751

Correction I was a 'not interested' then innocent and now guilty. Not sure why you're so interested in what I think. I'd be flattered if I didn't think it was related to you grudge!  8(0(*

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2015, 01:44:53 PM »
Correction I was a 'not interested' then innocent and now guilty. Not sure why you're so interested in what I think. I'd be flattered if I didn't think it was related to you grudge!  8(0(*

I couldn't give a flying fig what anyone thinks about JB's case yesterday, today or tomorrow.  I was simply responding to John's post and linked the two:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6819.msg289169#msg289169

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2931.msg103751.html#msg103751

I have always rated this forum over Blue.  If you dont believe me ask Nelly.  I advised him long before my ban I intended joining this forum and posting here.  Lets face it, if I really wanted to post on Blue I am sure I could do one way or another  8((()*/
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: It is never too late to change ones mind.
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2015, 02:03:50 PM »
I couldn't give a flying fig what anyone thinks about JB's case yesterday, today or tomorrow.  I was simply responding to John's post and linked the two:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6819.msg289169#msg289169

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2931.msg103751.html#msg103751

I have always rated this forum over Blue.  If you dont believe me ask Nelly.  I advised him long before my ban I intended joining this forum and posting here.  Lets face it, if I really wanted to post on Blue I am sure I could do one way or another  8((()*/

Yeah, you don't care so much so that you make a whole thread about it!  @)(++(*

Why would I care where you post? No explanation required - I'm sure NGB has better things to do than comment on where you post - I know I have!
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 12:44:02 PM by John »