My thoughts on the bamber murders by Sherlock

[Holly Goodhead]

When did I say that ?

I have always believed he planned to create the siege situation. It was his best option.

You're losing me adam.   You believe JB planned to shoot the victims in their beds whilst they were asleep?  If you believe that I can't figure out how to build the phone call JB claims he received from NB into your scenario?  Are you saying that's what JB intended but it went awry and the claimed phone call was an afterthought? 

[Holly Goodhead]

Bamber's legal team were clutching at straws with the bloodied foot submission, Eleanor. The marks can be interpreted in different ways and are not necessarily cuts - dirt from the kitchen floor is possible, but that could have been transferred at any time before she came to bed; marks from the insoles of any slippers she wore; transfer from the blood spots dropped by June onto the floor of the master bedroom as Sheila (was) walked through from her own bedroom.

Her mental condition was sufficiently under control with monthly Haloperidol injections.

Did the bloodied foot ever form part of a submission? 

(I finished the diagram yesterday.  Eat your heart out John Venn    PM winging its way for a bit of tech help). 

[rotti]

What would be the point of JB moving SC?  Although overall I'm inclined to see JB as the victim of a MoJ I can't really explain SC taking her own life in her parent's room and the room where June was found, who by all accounts SC had a very difficult relationship with.  If SC was found in her own room this would surely seem more authentic?

i think he moved sheila to disguise the fact Neville was shot by the bed first .his plan from the beginning was to stage the phonecall .so he could manipulate the police before they entered the farmhouse .he thought everyone found in different rooms and sheila with 2 gunshots would be suspicious.had sheila been found in her room we would now be asking why she didnt kill herself in the twins room or master bedroom.

[Eleanor]

no not at all Eleanor .i will try' but iam not that good on the computer .the police were fooled by bamber .but i suspect if dci Jones remained alive he would have to pay for his incompetence.as member 'John' put it the photo showing blood on sheilas feet were photoshopped .faked. had they been real the carpet underneath the feet would be beige and not green .and the one showing glass could also be fake .no mention of it was made at original trial .

Oh, I see, photo shopped, again.  Why was it not mentioned at Trial?  But thanks for the photo.

It's okay about you not being that good on a computer, just a bit difficult to read, so sometimes your points get lost for the sake of the odd full stop, comma and space..

PS.  What about The Silencer?  I am not happy about that either.  Can you explain that to me, s'il vous plait?

[rotti]

You're losing me Adam.   You believe JB planned to shoot the victims in their beds whilst they were asleep?  If you believe that I can't figure out how to build the phone call JB claims he received from NB into your scenario?  Are you saying that's what JB intended but it went awry and the claimed phone call was an afterthought?

the phone call was always part of the plan .so he could prime police into what they might find.even if he had caught every one asleep;and killed them in their beds than staged the scene he would most certainly have still made the bogus claim of the phone call

[Eleanor]

Bamber's legal team were clutching at straws with the bloodied foot submission, Eleanor. The marks can be interpreted in different ways and are not necessarily cuts - dirt from the kitchen floor is possible, but that could have been transferred at any time before she came to bed; marks from the insoles of any slippers she wore; transfer from the blood spots dropped by June onto the floor of the master bedroom as Sheila (was) walked through from her own bedroom.

Her mental condition was sufficiently under control with monthly Haloperidol injections.

Oh, do come on.  Jeremy picked her up and walked her to or from her own bedroom when she was half dead?  This simply isn't good enough.

Sufficiently under control?  That is ghastly.  Just how crackers was she?

[rotti]

Oh, I see, photo shopped, again.  Why was it not mentioned at Trial?  But thanks for the photo.

It's okay about you not being that good on a computer, just a bit difficult to read, so sometimes your points get lost for the sake of the odd full stop, comma and space..

PS.  What about The Silencer?  I am not happy about that either.  Can you explain that to me, s'il vous plait?

iam not sure probably it didnt exist.what the heck is s il vous plait

[Holly Goodhead]

i dont know what dci jones was looking for when he stared at sheilas body for 10 whole minutes than said it was suicide.he did not realise sheilas feet were free from blood so she couldn't have been running about that house.also some have said she was led into the bedroom at gunpoint .if so there would have been blood on her feet .staring down the barrel of a rifle i dont think she would be looking on the floor so she could avoid blood.i think stepping in blood would be the last thing on her mind

There was very little blood anywhere on the floor other than the pool that formed around NB and there would be no need for SC to tread there. 

SC's feet were never swabbed.  DC Hammersley placed bags over her feet at SoC.  SC was then placed in a body bag and transferred to the path lab.  DC Hammersley removed the bags but they were not forensically analysed.  So the potential for much movement existed and for any debris to transfer and get lost in the bags. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=229

This is Dr Vanezis' take on SC's feet from CAL's interview with the Dr: (P322/323)

Her feet were clean, save for a couple of minor bloodspots on the soles, suggesting that she hadn't walked through the kitchen, where the floor into the hallway was stippled with blood, but creating a puzzle regarding the blood-streaked bedroom carpet.  Pathologist Dr Vanezis explains that the area of marking and porousness of the carpet should be taken into account: 'An expert on blood spatter might tell you that small spots of blood on the carpet won't transfer so easily, particularly if it's more or less dried.  If she'd been carried, would that have been willingly?  No, I can't see that.  The other thing is: if a gun had been held to her head, she would have been led there and told to lie down.  Jeremy would then have to get round this blood, thinking he mustn't touch it.  I think it was just small amounts of blood on the carpet and it was the luck of the draw whether she got any on her feet or not.'

[adam]

You're losing me adam.   You believe JB planned to shoot the victims in their beds whilst they were asleep?  If you believe that I can't figure out how to build the phone call JB claims he received from NB into your scenario?  Are you saying that's what JB intended but it went awry and the claimed phone call was an afterthought?

He planned to move Neville or June a few feet from their bed.  Or let them stumble a few feet, as June did.

Then take take the bedroom phone off the hook.

[rotti]

Oh, do come on.  Jeremy picked her up and walked her to or from her own bedroom when she was half dead?  This simply isn't good enough.

Sufficiently under control?  That is ghastly.  Just how crackers was she?

why is it not good enough.like i said before.if she was forced into that room at gunpoint or had she  walked in there while bamber was killing neville in kitchen she would have junes and nevilles blood on her feet. if led in at gunpoint she would be staring at the rifle and not the floor.she could not have avoided the blood on the floor .she was carried into that room'

[Holly Goodhead]

the phone call was always part of the plan .so he could prime police into what they might find.even if he had caught every one asleep;and killed them in their beds than staged the scene he would most certainly have still made the bogus claim of the phone call

Ok but it doesn't make sense to me.  I don't see how he could expect all concerned to fall for the phone call if he murdered the victims in their respective beds/asleep. 

[rotti]

 

He planned to move Neville or June a few feet from their bed.  Or let them stumble a few feet, as June did.

Then take take the bedroom phone off the hook.

[Myster]

Oh, do come on.  Jeremy picked her up and walked her to or from her own bedroom when she was half dead?  This simply isn't good enough.

Sufficiently under control?  That is ghastly.  Just how crackers was she?

Mmmm... I can see this being more difficult to convince you than I thought!

There are different opinions as to the severity of her physical and mental condition. Haloperidol has sedative-like effects. According the CAL's interview with Sheila's closest friend, Tora Tomkinson, Sheila was incapable of getting up from a seated position without help only a week or so before the murders. On the night in question she sounded vacant and vague ("like a zombie") on the phone to June's sister. Jeremy stated that she never participated in the kitchen conversation that night concerning the future of her twins.

My own view is that she was woken up by the noise of the fracas in the main bedroom and on the stairs, and the struggle between Jeremy and his dad in the kitchen; saw the body of June lying on the floor, then tried to hide in the Box Room adjacent to her parents' bedroom, or crouched down so as not to be seen at Nevill's side of the bed when she heard her brother come back upstairs.

[Holly Goodhead]

He planned to move Neville or June a few feet from their bed.  Or let them stumble a few feet, as June did.

Then take take the bedroom phone off the hook.

Gotcha.  But would he be daft enough to not realise that any shot may have made what he was attempting to do impossible from a pathological perspective? 

[Holly Goodhead]

There was very little blood anywhere on the floor other than the pool that formed around NB and there would be no need for SC to tread there. 

SC's feet were never swabbed.  DC Hammersley placed bags over her feet at SoC.  SC was then placed in a body bag and transferred to the path lab.  DC Hammersley removed the bags but they were not forensically analysed.  So the potential for much movement existed and for any debris to transfer and get lost in the bags. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=229

This is Dr Vanezis' take on SC's feet from CAL's interview with the Dr: (P322/323)

Her feet were clean, save for a couple of minor bloodspots on the soles, suggesting that she hadn't walked through the kitchen, where the floor into the hallway was stippled with blood, but creating a puzzle regarding the blood-streaked bedroom carpet.  Pathologist Dr Vanezis explains that the area of marking and porousness of the carpet should be taken into account: 'An expert on blood spatter might tell you that small spots of blood on the carpet won't transfer so easily, particularly if it's more or less dried.  If she'd been carried, would that have been willingly?  No, I can't see that.  The other thing is: if a gun had been held to her head, she would have been led there and told to lie down.  Jeremy would then have to get round this blood, thinking he mustn't touch it.  I think it was just small amounts of blood on the carpet and it was the luck of the draw whether she got any on her feet or not.'

Something that never seems to feature is the box room that connects the twins room and main bedroom.  Did victim(s) or perp use this at any point for entry or exit?