Did Nevill Sustain The Four Gunshot Wounds Upstairs On The Landing And Stairs?

[scipio_usmc]

see holly now you know why is called the master.if youre going to discuss facts with master scipio.than you better read every bit of information regarding the case and also every diagram and photo.because thats what the master has done

What I am citing is common knowledge.  Most on blue have read Lincoln's report and know what was blood tested.  Holly intentionally refuses to go to sources when she doesn't like what answer the source provides.  That is when she plays games.

[Holly Goodhead]

Nevill's blood dripped in the hall one of 2 ways:

1) he tried to wake Sheila by talking or otherwise opened his mouth for some other reason resulting in some blood loss

or

2) a little of his blood dripped off the weapon/killer which had been his with his spatter.

It is obvious that the blood didn't leak as a result of him being shot there but rather was dripped there subsequent to him being wounded or killed.

You keep making the false argument that his blood would have to have been in the bedroom if he was shot there which is false.  Even if he dripped blood in the hall and down the stairs it would not prove he had to drip it in the bedroom.  His mouth first had to fill with blood and then him to open his mouth for him to drip blood.

FURTHERMORE, they didn't test most of the blood in the bedroom so you have no way to know whether any of the multitude of drops on the carpet were his blood or not and no way to know if any of his blood was on the bedding or not.  All you know is that the blood on the socks and the ten drops tested from the carpet were not his. The samples of carpet contained more than 5 drops of blood but only 5 were tested.  It is possible for one of the untested drops to be Nevill's.  There was more blood on the rugs that was not cut out also.

It doesn't matter how many times you raise your nonsense the following facts will still always be true:

1) Nevill could have been shot in the bedroom and left without dripping any blood in there.

2) Some of the blood in the bedroom never tested could have been Nevill's.

You just keep making up the fiction that his blood would have to have been dripped in the room where he was shot and that the bedroom definitely had none of his blood.  The same way a court woudl ignore your mad eup claims so too do I.

Look at the SoC photos and blood pertaining to June.  Not one spot of blood pertaining to NB and yet claim he was shot four times in the bedroom?  It's not just the lack of blood but the trajectories of wounds.

Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds.  They all stack up with my theory.

[Holly Goodhead]

Look at the SoC photos and blood pertaining to June.  Not one spot of blood pertaining to NB and yet you claim he was shot four times in the bedroom?  It's not just the lack of blood but the trajectories of wounds.

Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds.  They all stack up with my theory.

[Holly Goodhead]

Scipio are you able to answer my Q here plse.  There was some misunderstanding.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6697.msg294188#msg294188

[scipio_usmc]

Look at the SoC photos and blood pertaining to June.  Not one spot of blood pertaining to NB and yet claim he was shot four times in the bedroom?  It's not just the lack of blood but the trajectories of wounds.

Three aspects need to stack up: blood, casings and trajectories of wounds.  They all stack up with my theory.

The trajectories and casings totally refute your theory they are not in accord except in your delusional mind.

With Nevill on the stairs it is IMPOSSIBLE to fire a shot into his left profile from the doorway of the master bedroom or anywhere else unless once is a ghost with a ghost rifle and can stick their rifle through the wall.  The casings would shoot into the hall in such situation not left.

As for the blood all you keep doing is making up that he would have to bleed in the room where the shots were fired though that is false and making up that all the blood was tested and wasn't his though that is blatantly false and most of the blood on the floor was not tested and none of the blood on the bed was tested so we don't know if his blood was there or not.

That's it you just repeated the same disproved stuff over and over like a broken record so this debate can go round and round and you will still be wrong now matter how many times you keep raising it.

Go to any doorway you want and have someone stand on the left side where Nevill would be in relation to the bedroom door if he had been on the stairs going down.  Can you see the left shoulder of such person and target the side of it?  NO you can see their back only and the right half of their back at that because the corner HIDES the left side. That is before even taking it no account the stairs wall. 

It he were coming up the stairs then the shots would come from right to left but still would be frontal. The trajectory was the complete opposite of this it was left to right and from the side. Your claims are totally impossible except in your mind. 


   

[John]

The shooter was standing in the bedroom for the facial shots with the barrel extending onto the landing and the ejector port within the main bedroom.  This accounts for casing DRH/3 and DRH/4.  They were restricted from going far due to internal walls.  The shooter and NB were on the main stairs facing downwards towards the main hall for the elbow and shoulder shots and casings DRH/13 and DRH/14 account for these shots.  The ejection port ejected the cartridges to the right with DRH/13 landing on the transition plate and DRH/14 rolling a little further back.

I looked at this in a some depth years ago Holly, casings DRH/3 and DRH/4 are attributed to the rounds which were fired at June whilst the shooter was standing just inside the door and directly in front of the bed.

DRH/13 would also appear to have come from a shot taken from inside the bedroom.  DRH/14 was most probably the result of a shot taken from a position just outside the bedroom door with the rifle pointing towards the bedroom.  The experts who attended the scene reckoned that both DRH/13 and DRH/14 were shots directed at June during the second phase.  It is my view that casings DRH/13 and DRH/14 were probably kicked about by the shooter or by the police first responders.

[rotti]

The trajectories and casings totally refute your theory they are not in accord except in your delusional mind.

With Nevill on the stairs it is IMPOSSIBLE to fire a shot into his left profile from the doorway of the master bedroom or anywhere else unless once is a ghost with a ghost rifle and can stick their rifle through the wall.  The casings would shoot into the hall in such situation not left.

As for the blood all you keep doing is making up that he would have to bleed in the room where the shots were fired though that is false and making up that all the blood was tested and wasn't his though that is blatantly false and most of the blood on the floor was not tested and none of the blood on the bed was tested so we don't know if his blood was there or not.

That's it you just repeated the same disproved stuff over and over like a broken record so this debate can go round and round and you will still be wrong now matter how many times you keep raising it.

Go to any doorway you want and have someone stand on the left side where Nevill would be in relation to the bedroom door if he had been on the stairs going down.  Can you see the left shoulder of such person and target the side of it?  NO you can see their back only and the right half of their back at that because the corner HIDES the left side. That is before even taking it no account the stairs wall. 

It he were coming up the stairs then the shots would come from right to left but still would be frontal. The trajectory was the complete opposite of this it was left to right and from the side. Your claims are totally impossible except in your mind. 


 

another brilliant explanation by the master .master Scipio your knowledge in this case is fantastic  8@??)(you dont give bamberretts a leg to stand on.

[Holly Goodhead]

The trajectories and casings totally refute your theory they are not in accord except in your delusional mind.

With Nevill on the stairs it is IMPOSSIBLE to fire a shot into his left profile from the doorway of the master bedroom or anywhere else unless once is a ghost with a ghost rifle and can stick their rifle through the wall.  The casings would shoot into the hall in such situation not left.

As for the blood all you keep doing is making up that he would have to bleed in the room where the shots were fired though that is false and making up that all the blood was tested and wasn't his though that is blatantly false and most of the blood on the floor was not tested and none of the blood on the bed was tested so we don't know if his blood was there or not.

That's it you just repeated the same disproved stuff over and over like a broken record so this debate can go round and round and you will still be wrong now matter how many times you keep raising it.

Go to any doorway you want and have someone stand on the left side where Nevill would be in relation to the bedroom door if he had been on the stairs going down.  Can you see the left shoulder of such person and target the side of it?  NO you can see their back only and the right half of their back at that because the corner HIDES the left side. That is before even taking it no account the stairs wall. 

It he were coming up the stairs then the shots would come from right to left but still would be frontal. The trajectory was the complete opposite of this it was left to right and from the side. Your claims are totally impossible except in your mind. 

Are you aware which sets of stairs I am referring to?  I am referring to the 2 stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom for the facial shots:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920

And the main stairs for the elbow and shoulder shots:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947

Where does it state the shots are to the left profile?

I have already posted the diagram and autopsy reports showing the nature of the wounds.  They are not to the left profile.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5885

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676

Compare the SoC photos and the amount of blood attributed to June and the fact none of NB's was found:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6697.msg294176#msg294176

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5594.0;attach=4504

The trajectories of the facial wounds were both 20 degrees below the horizontal.  How do you account for this when JB and SC were both shorter than NB? 

How do you account for casing DRH 14 on the landing? 

[Holly Goodhead]

I looked at this in a some depth years ago Holly, casings DRH/3, DRH/4 and DRH/5 are attributed to the rounds which were fired at June whilst the shooter was standing just inside the door and directly in front of the bed.

I disagree John.  I think the perp was stood around the entrance with the ejection port in such a postion DRH/3 and DRH/4 ejected within the main bedroom and the barrel was facing towards NB on the two stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom: 

DRH/5 is a bullet not a casing:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201

That's why it is black on the following to differentiate between a casing and a bullet:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg294238#msg294238

[John]

I disagree John.  I think the perp was stood around the entrance with the ejection port in such a postion DRH/3 and DRH/4 ejected within the main bedroom and the barrel was facing towards NB on the two stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom: 

DRH/5 is a bullet not a casing:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201

That's why it is black on the following to differentiate between a casing and a bullet:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6883.msg294238#msg294238

Virtually impossible as casings are normally ejected forward and to the right.  In your scenario the casings would have ended up across the bed.  You have to fire a weapon to realise that theory and practice can be two different things. With the best will in the world, ejected cases dont always obey sods law and can hit you in the face rather than disappear off to the side.

If the shooter was stood in the bedroom door entrance the casings could very well have ended up down the stairs. Failing that they could have rebounded off the bedroom door but for them to have landed together is impossible.

[rotti]

Virtually impossible as casings are normally ejected forward and to the right.  In your scenario the casings would have ended up across the bed.  You have to fire a weapon to realise that theory and practice can be two different things. Ejected cases dont always obey sods law and can hit you in the face rather than disappear off to the side.

another good explanation.master john

[Holly Goodhead]

Virtually impossible as casings are normally ejected forward and to the right.  In your scenario the casings would have ended up across the bed.  You have to fire a weapon to realise that theory and practice can be two different things. With the best will in the world, ejected cases dont always obey sods law and can hit you in the face rather than disappear off to the side.

If the shooter was stood in the bedroom door entrance the casings could very well have ended up down the stairs. Failing that they could have rebounded off the bedroom door but for them to have landed together is impossible.

How would my scenario have the casings ejecting onto the bed?  If the perp was facing NB on the stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom and fired the rifle from that postion the casings would eject forward and to the right but their flight impeded by the right angle of the walls.

They eject forward and right which accounts for DRH/3 and DRH/4 as the internal wall impeded their flight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgz0lqGVouo

The rifle also has a deflector plate.

[scipio_usmc]

Are you aware which sets of stairs I am referring to?  I am referring to the 2 stairs immediately preceding the entrance to the main bedroom for the facial shots:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5920

And the main stairs for the elbow and shoulder shots:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg25947#msg25947

Where does it state the shots are to the left profile?

I have already posted the diagram and autopsy reports showing the nature of the wounds.  They are not to the left profile.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6697.0;attach=5885

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=676

Compare the SoC photos and the amount of blood attributed to June and the fact none of NB's was found:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6697.msg294176#msg294176

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5594.0;attach=4504

The trajectories of the facial wounds were both 20 degrees below the horizontal.  How do you account for this when JB and SC were both shorter than NB? 

How do you account for casing DRH 14 on the landing?

The only stairs near the bedroom are the stairs that are arrived at by walking out the door and then TURNING left.  Unless one is completely blind and knows so little about guns that they think bullets zig zag one would recognize that the left side of someone walking down the stairs is hidden by the wall.

As i have stated no less than 50 times Nevill was most likely seated on the bed or just getting off the bed when he was shot and thus not fully upright.  I based such on the location of the casing and location of the wounds because it explains BOTH.

With the shooter at the foot of the bed and Nevill seated on the bed getting up Nevill's left profile would be facing the killer which is how he was facing the killer when he was shot!  His left profile was to the killer when he was shot.  He was not walking towards the killer, he was not walking away from the killer his left profile was facing the killer which would only be the case in a few circumstances one of them being as he was getting out of bed.

The casings would shoot to June's side of the bed with the gun aimed at Nevill as he was seated on the bed.  One casing was on June's side of the bed and others were on the floor right next to where June got up.  They could have been knocked off the bed when June got up, could have ricocheted off the bed to that location.

The fact he was seated or in the process of rising explains the downward angle of the shots in addition to the fact they were fired at his left profile.  It would also explain why he shot lower on the body than he wanted.  He aimed at where Nevill's head was but as Nevill rose it ended up hitting his shoulder instead and his jaw and lip instead of his head. Getting up also caused him to only graze Nevill.

I already posted this to you the other day and many months ago in addition to posting in blue countless times which you read religiously because anytime I posted you commented here on what I wrote.

In fact all along since I have posted here I indicated he was not fully upright when shot this is nothing new.  I noted that since his left profile was hit he can't have been shot on the stairs, this is nothing new.

Did you ever fire a gun in your life?

The green line represents where a shooter would have to be to fire the shots into Nevill's shoulder with him on the stairs.  The shooter would have to be even further north in the room to achieve the shots to his lip, jaw and chest (blue line)  Were there holes in the wall so as to suggest he was shot through the wall?  NO!

From the doorway the only areas that a shooter could target on Nevill if he were walking downstairs would be from the middle of his body to the right side of his body.  The left side of his body is hidden.

In the meantime the casings would shoot into the hall. The casings go right and forward. So they would have gone towards Sheila's door and either landed in the hall near her door or went through the stair railing to the bottom of the stairs.  If the shooter had the gun far enough inside the room so that the casings landed in the room then they would be in the right corner.

[david1819]

The casings would shoot to June's side of the bed with the gun aimed at Nevill as he was seated on the bed.  One casing was on June's side of the bed and others were on the floor right next to where June got up.  They could have been knocked off the bed when June got up, could have ricocheted off the bed to that location.

The Anschutz 525 expels the casings at a forward angle.

https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s

By looking at the diagram of the twins room it seems to make sense when you look at the pattern

[scipio_usmc]

The Anschutz 525 expels the casings at a forward angle.

https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s

By looking at the diagram of the twins room it seems to make sense when you look at the pattern

It expels them forward right. Forward right while shooting at Nevill would result in them landing on top of June. Only 1 casing was found on top of June though most either bounced off the bed as she was kicking around or fell off when she got up.

She was likely getting out of bed when the 2 chest shots were fired.  Jeremy had to move the angle at which he was shooting at her which in turn resulted in those 2 casing being closer to the door.  For some odd reason people think that the casings should have been on the floor on Nevill's side of the bed if he had been shot in the room but that's not the case they would land on the bed/deflect off the bed to where the mass grouping was.  This is in part why the experts do not doubt Nevill was shot in the bedroom. The fact the bullet that grazed him was found in the bedroom is certainly another reason.  Then of course there is the struggle in the kitchen which never would have happened but for the fact after firing 10 shots in the bedroom the gun was empty.