Did Nevill Sustain The Four Gunshot Wounds Upstairs On The Landing And Stairs?

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes it would. Nevile could have fallen near the door way like triping over june

Tripping backwards then ie if forwards how did he sustain the lip and jaw shots 20 degrees below the horizontal?

[Angelo222]

Tripping backwards then ie if forwards how did he sustain the lip and jaw shots 20 degrees below the horizontal?

Holly, are you being purposely obtuse?

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, are you being purposely obtuse?

No, just seeking clarification on david1819's post.

[Holly Goodhead]

It expels them forward right. Forward right while shooting at Nevill would result in them landing on top of June. Only 1 casing was found on top of June though most either bounced off the bed as she was kicking around or fell off when she got up.

She was likely getting out of bed when the 2 chest shots were fired.  Jeremy had to move the angle at which he was shooting at her which in turn resulted in those 2 casing being closer to the door.  For some odd reason people think that the casings should have been on the floor on Nevill's side of the bed if he had been shot in the room but that's not the case they would land on the bed/deflect off the bed to where the mass grouping was.  This is in part why the experts do not doubt Nevill was shot in the bedroom. The fact the bullet that grazed him was found in the bedroom is certainly another reason.  Then of course there is the struggle in the kitchen which never would have happened but for the fact after firing 10 shots in the bedroom the gun was empty.

All bullets recovered from the main bedroom pertain to June:

- DRH 35 x 2 - DRH35 is the exhibit number for the pillow which when examined contained two bullets.
- DRH 9
- DRH 5

Confirmed in the following:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6883.0;attach=5949

You claim the bullet pertaining to NB's elbow shot was found in the bedroom?

Casing DRH/13 and DRH/14 are both on the landing denoted by the different lettering how does this fit with the shootings taking place in the bedroom?

June was shot 7 times in the main bedroom.  IMO the following casings pertain to these shots:

DRH/6
DRH/7 - one casing only - no idea why it's marked up twice on the above
DRH/8
DRH/10
DRH/11
DRH/12
DRH/43

NB was shot 4 times upstairs all of which were on the landing (2 steps by main bedroom) and the staircase marked S1 on WHF layout plan.  IMO the following casings pertain to these shots:

DRH/3
DRH/4
DRH/13
DRH/14

[rotti]

hi holly .i do respect your views.without you and some others this site would be boring .it would be full of people who think bamber is guilty .you bring a lot to this conversation .well done

[scipio_usmc]

All bullets recovered from the main bedroom pertain to June:

- DRH 35 x 2 - DRH35 is the exhibit number for the pillow which when examined contained two bullets.
- DRH 9
- DRH 5

Confirmed in the following:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6883.0;attach=5949

You claim the bullet pertaining to NB's elbow shot was found in the bedroom?

Do you know how to count Holly?  June was shot 7 times.  She suffered 3 exit wounds which means 3 bullets exited her body.  Fragments from 4 different bullets were removed from June's body.  4 plus 3=7.  To anyone who can count and comprehends that there were only 3 exit wounds comprehends that only 3 of the 4 fragments recovered from the master bedroom were associated with her 3 exit wounds. The 4th (most likely DRH/5) was associated with Nevill's graze wound.   

Sheila
upper wound (chin) PV/19
lower wound (neck) PV/20

Nevill
1) PV/8 front of right ear/exit left ear but still in the body
2) PV/9 slightly above wound 1
3) PV/3 top of skull
4) PV/4 top of skull
5) PV/10 (lip)         
6) PV/11 (jaw)
7)PV/2  (Shoulder)
8)DRH/5 (Arm/chest Graze wound)

Wounds 1-4 were received in the kitchen, wounds 5-8 in the master bedroom. DRH/5 was recovered in the master bedroom.

June
1) PV/25 between eyes
2) PV/26 above right ear
3) DRH/35a lower neck (bullet exited into pillow)
4) DRH/35b forearm (bullet exited into pillow)
5) PV/24 right upper chest
6) PV/23 lower chest
7) DRH/9 knee (bullet exited into bed)

Casing DRH/13 and DRH/14 are both on the landing denoted by the different lettering how does this fit with the shootings taking place in the bedroom?

There was 1 casing on the landing and it was in the corner directly against the wall. That casing was transported from the kitchen and was kicked off of the shoe it attached to thus landing right against the wall. DRH/13 was just inside the bedroom doorway touching the metal transition plate.  Not only did the ballistic expert state such so did Hammersley in his report:



and trial testimony:



13 casings were found in the master bedroom.  1 on the landing (which was assocated with a shot fired in the kitchen), 3 in the kitchen and 8 in the boys room. 

June was shot 7 times in the main bedroom.  IMO the following casings pertain to these shots:

DRH/6
DRH/7 - one casing only - no idea why it's marked up twice on the above
DRH/8
DRH/10
DRH/11
DRH/12
DRH/43

NB was shot 4 times upstairs all of which were on the landing (2 steps by main bedroom) and the staircase marked S1 on WHF layout plan.  IMO the following casings pertain to these shots:

DRH/3
DRH/4
DRH/13
DRH/14

Exhibit DRH/7 consisted of 2 casings not one just like DRH/35 consisted of 2 bullets not one.  So you start right off the bat with an error.

DRH/14 is the missing casing from the kitchen.  It either stuck to the killer's shoe or a cop's shoe and was kicked off while on the landing resulting in it ending up in a corner right against the wall. It was right in the area where the wall meets the floor of the landing. 

13 casings were in the master bedroom. DRH/1 &2 were associated with Sheila's wounds.  The remaining 11- DRH: 3, 4, 6, 7a, 7b, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 43 were associated with the 11 wounds June and Nevill suffered in the bedroom.  DRH/3 and 4 were most likely associated with the 2 chest shots to June which she received as she was getting out of bed.  DRH/13 is associated with the shot between her eyes and DRH/8 associated with a shot to Nevill.


6, 7a, 7b, 10, 11, 12 and 43 are associated with the remaining 3 shots to Nevill and 4 shots June suffered while lying in bed. Since they are all in the same vicinity there is no way to try to separate them out.  DRH/8 was on the bed thus landed on top of June.  That could only happen if the gun were being aimed at Nevill's side of the bed so we know it pertains to a shot fired at Nevill. The other 3 casings from Nevill's shots either bounced off the bed as she was kicking the covers or fell off when she got up.  There is no sure way to separate out which 3 bounced/fell off from the 4 that were associated with her being shot in bed since they were all in the same area.  One could be simplistic and say the 3 on the floor closest to the bed were associated with the shots to Nevill and other 4 to June but that might not be the case.

   

[Holly Goodhead]

hi holly .i do respect your views.without you and some others this site would be boring .it would be full of people who think bamber is guilty .you bring a lot to this conversation .well done

Thanks sherlock    I might not be around much over the next couple of weeks as I have a lot of things on with the normal Christmas/New Year things. 

[rotti]

Thanks sherlock    I might not be around much over the next couple of weeks as I have a lot of things on with the normal Christmas/New Year things.

yes i think we will all have less time free because of the festive season.i know master scipio usmc can be very rude at times.but you have to ignore that and look at the facts he presents.iam personally in awe at the knowledge he has on this case.its fantastic.i was  only 60% sure about bambers guilt when i joined this forum.but now i would say  its 100%

[scipio_usmc]

yes i think we will all have less time free because of the festive season.i know master scipio usmc can be very rude at times.but you have to ignore that and look at the facts he presents.iam personally in awe at the knowledge he has on this case.its fantastic.i was  only 60% sure about bambers guilt when i joined this forum.but now i would say  its 100%

The Jeremy Bamber forum AKA blue forum has many primary documents which are conveniently indexed in the archive section.  It is worth registering  there in order to be able to read such documents.  Many of the claims made there consist of lies and nonsense, particularly from Mike T and his fans but if you ignore such and read the materials you will be able to get a strong understanding.  I have explored all the supporter claims particularly the most damning ones to see if there is any truth to their allegations.  Upon scrutiny they all fall apart. The stuff that really attracts you to this case- the claims of police switching moderators, moving bodies around, shooting the victims etc all turned out to be utter bunk. When all that crap is stripped away it is a pretty mundane case. The notion police concealed receiving a phone call from Nevill particularly intrigued me. I thought maybe they were railroading Jeremy. But after I found out the frivolous basis of such allegations and the others it became clear that supporters like Mike and the Campaign Team are out to distort and play games for their own purposes simply.

[Holly Goodhead]

Do you know how to count Holly?  June was shot 7 times.  She suffered 3 exit wounds which means 3 bullets exited her body.  Fragments from 4 different bullets were removed from June's body.  4 plus 3=7.  To anyone who can count and comprehends that there were only 3 exit wounds comprehends that only 3 of the 4 fragments recovered from the master bedroom were associated with her 3 exit wounds. The 4th (most likely DRH/5) was associated with Nevill's graze wound.   

Sheila
upper wound (chin) PV/19
lower wound (neck) PV/20

Nevill
1) PV/8 front of right ear/exit left ear but still in the body
2) PV/9 slightly above wound 1
3) PV/3 top of skull
4) PV/4 top of skull
5) PV/10 (lip)         
6) PV/11 (jaw)
7)PV/2  (Shoulder)
8)DRH/5 (Arm/chest Graze wound)

Wounds 1-4 were received in the kitchen, wounds 5-8 in the master bedroom. DRH/5 was recovered in the master bedroom.

June
1) PV/25 between eyes
2) PV/26 above right ear
3) DRH/35a lower neck (bullet exited into pillow)
4) DRH/35b forearm (bullet exited into pillow)
5) PV/24 right upper chest
6) PV/23 lower chest
7) DRH/9 knee (bullet exited into bed)

There was 1 casing on the landing and it was in the corner directly against the wall. That casing was transported from the kitchen and was kicked off of the shoe it attached to thus landing right against the wall. DRH/13 was just inside the bedroom doorway touching the metal transition plate.  Not only did the ballistic expert state such so did Hammersley in his report:



and trial testimony:



13 casings were found in the master bedroom.  1 on the landing (which was assocated with a shot fired in the kitchen), 3 in the kitchen and 8 in the boys room. 

Exhibit DRH/7 consisted of 2 casings not one just like DRH/35 consisted of 2 bullets not one.  So you start right off the bat with an error.

DRH/14 is the missing casing from the kitchen.  It either stuck to the killer's shoe or a cop's shoe and was kicked off while on the landing resulting in it ending up in a corner right against the wall. It was right in the area where the wall meets the floor of the landing. 

13 casings were in the master bedroom. DRH/1 &2 were associated with Sheila's wounds.  The remaining 11- DRH: 3, 4, 6, 7a, 7b, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 43 were associated with the 11 wounds June and Nevill suffered in the bedroom.  DRH/3 and 4 were most likely associated with the 2 chest shots to June which she received as she was getting out of bed.  DRH/13 is associated with the shot between her eyes and DRH/8 associated with a shot to Nevill.


6, 7a, 7b, 10, 11, 12 and 43 are associated with the remaining 3 shots to Nevill and 4 shots June suffered while lying in bed. Since they are all in the same vicinity there is no way to try to separate them out.  DRH/8 was on the bed thus landed on top of June.  That could only happen if the gun were being aimed at Nevill's side of the bed so we know it pertains to a shot fired at Nevill. The other 3 casings from Nevill's shots either bounced off the bed as she was kicking the covers or fell off when she got up.  There is no sure way to separate out which 3 bounced/fell off from the 4 that were associated with her being shot in bed since they were all in the same area.  One could be simplistic and say the 3 on the floor closest to the bed were associated with the shots to Nevill and other 4 to June but that might not be the case.

Can I ask you right now please to cut the condescending comments. 

June's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:

All June's gunshot wounds occur ed in the bedroom

1. Bullet recovered
2. Fragments recovered no exit wound
3. Exit wound
4. Exit wound
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Exit wound

Nevill's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:

NB's gunshot wounds 1 - 4 incl occurred in the kitchen

1. Bullet recovered
2. Bullet recovered
3. Bullet recovered
4. Bullet recovered

NB's gunshot wounds 5 - 8 incl location within WHF landing/stairs and/or main bedroom

5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Bullet recovered
8. Fragments recovered no exit wound

The diagram showing the casing layout states all four bullets found in the main bedroom pertain to June - below

Contrary to your assertion there is no 7a and 7b simply DRH/7 one whole casing as per the list of exhibits - below

Excl the casings that pertain to SC, the main bedroom contained 9 casings with a further one casing on the transition strip separating main bedroom and landing and a further one casing on the landing.

A theory exists that a police officer carried a casing on his boot from the kitchen to the landing as only 3 casings were found in the kitchen when the pathology report indicates NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds in the kitchen.  However this is just a theory there's no hard evidence to prove or disprove it.  The casing may have slipped down some nook or cranny in the kitchen or got lost in the clean up. 

To sustain your theory that NB was shot in the main bedroom you need to divide up one whole casing DRH/7 and create 7a and 7b even though no such exhibits exist and promote the theory that casing DRH/14 was transferred by a police officer's boot from the kitchen to the landing. 

My theory that NB was shot twice on the two stairs preceding the entrance to the main bedroom and twice on the main stairs doesn't require whole casing DRH/7 to morph into 7a and 7b which have never featured as a recognised exhibit.  Nor does it require a police officer to transfer a casing under his boot from the kitchen to the landing.

[Holly Goodhead]

Just to clarify where I have stated bullet recovered above I mean recovered by pathologist at autopsy.

[adam]

Can I ask you right now please to cut the condescending comments. 

June's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:

All June's gunshot wounds occur ed in the bedroom

1. Bullet recovered
2. Fragments recovered no exit wound
3. Exit wound
4. Exit wound
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Exit wound

Nevill's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:

NB's gunshot wounds 1 - 4 incl occurred in the kitchen

1. Bullet recovered
2. Bullet recovered
3. Bullet recovered
4. Bullet recovered

NB's gunshot wounds 5 - 8 incl location within WHF landing/stairs and/or main bedroom

5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Bullet recovered
8. Fragments recovered no exit wound

The diagram showing the casing layout states all four bullets found in the main bedroom pertain to June - below

Contrary to your assertion there is no 7a and 7b simply DRH/7 one whole casing as per the list of exhibits - below

Excl the casings that pertain to SC, the main bedroom contained 9 casings with a further one casing on the transition strip separating main bedroom and landing and a further one casing on the landing.

A theory exists that a police officer carried a casing on his boot from the kitchen to the landing as only 3 casings were found in the kitchen when the pathology report indicates NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds in the kitchen.  However this is just a theory there's no hard evidence to prove or disprove it.  The casing may have slipped down some nook or cranny in the kitchen or got lost in the clean up. 

To sustain your theory that NB was shot in the main bedroom you need to divide up one whole casing DRH/7 and create 7a and 7b even though no such exhibits exist and promote the theory that casing DRH/14 was transferred by a police officer's boot from the kitchen to the landing. 

My theory that NB was shot twice on the two stairs preceding the entrance to the main bedroom and twice on the main stairs doesn't require whole casing DRH/7 to morph into 7a and 7b which have never featured as a recognised exhibit.  Nor does it require a police officer to transfer a bullet under his boot from the kitchen to the landing.

Where do you believe Neville was when Bamber opened fire on him.

[scipio_usmc]

Can I ask you right now please to cut the condescending comments.

You asserted 4 loose bullets and 4 removed from June at autopsy were associated with 7 gunshot wounds June suffered.  You should have enough sense to recognize that is 1 bullet too many to have been associated with her shots.  In this post you have doubled down on that claim even though it is impossible.  You earn such  condescension.  Of the 7 bullets that June suffered 4 lodged inside her body and were removed at autopsy. 3 exited and were found in the room. That means the other bullet found in the room wounded someone else.  That someone else is Nevill, he suffered a graze wound which means the bullet scraped against the outside of his body.  That bullet didn't disintegrate into thin air or lodge inside a wall where it could not be recovered from, it was recovered.

June's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:

All June's gunshot wounds occur ed in the bedroom

1. Bullet recovered
2. Fragments recovered no exit wound
3. Exit wound
4. Exit wound
5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Exit wound

Nevill's gunshot wounds based on the autopsy report are as follows:

NB's gunshot wounds 1 - 4 incl occurred in the kitchen

1. Bullet recovered
2. Bullet recovered
3. Bullet recovered
4. Bullet recovered

NB's gunshot wounds 5 - 8 incl location within WHF landing/stairs and/or main bedroom

5. Bullet recovered
6. Bullet recovered
7. Bullet recovered
8. Fragments recovered no exit wound

The list I provided details the wounds according to the order of the Autopsy report and also listed the exact exhibit fragments associated with each that Vanezis removed.  I did so in order to be extremely clear about what bullet is associated with which wound.  My list notes that Vanezis didn't recover any fragments from the bullet that grazed Nevill.  You are wrong about a bullet being recovered by Vanezis.  Vanezis determined that the bullet grazed Nevill's arm then SPLIT.  A tiny portion broke off and entered Nevill's side and this tiny fragment was seen on the xray but could NOT be recovered because it was too small.  The remainder of the bullet grazed his chest and ended up in the room.

So 7 of 8 bullets that hit Nevill were recovered from his body meaning the 8th which did not enter his body but only grazed his body thus was not recovered from his body HAD to still be inside the room where he was shot.



June suffered 7 wounds- 4 lodged in her body and were removed while 3 exited so were not recovered at autopsy and thus these 3 still had to be in the room.  4 bullets were recovered from the master bedroom only 3 could have been associated with June's wounds so the 4th had to be associated with a shot to someone else and we know that someone else is Nevill.

The diagram showing the casing layout states all four bullets found in the main bedroom pertain to June - below

That's what police initially thought.  Only after Vanezis published his autopsy report in September did they find out that June only suffered 3 exit wounds and that Nevill suffered a graze wound and that the 4th bullet was associated with such graze wound.  I'm going by what ULTIMATELY was determined and argued at trial not by what police initially erroneously believed because what they erroneously believed initially is meaningless to the what is true.

Contrary to your assertion there is no 7a and 7b simply DRH/7 one whole casing as per the list of exhibits - below

You never learn for your mistakes and just keep on spouting the same erroneous nonsense over and over.  Hammersley wrote in his report that exhibit 7 consisted of 2 casings as did his trial testimony.  It also is stated in the ballistic report by Fletcher.  You deserve the condescension you get because you don't ever face facts.

Note how Fletcher wrote in his report cases plural for DRH/7 but singular case for the others:


 
Note how Hammersley wrote he collected 2 cases as exhibit DRH/7 in his report



and his trial testimony:



The one wrong is you not me.

Excl the casings that pertain to SC, the main bedroom contained 9 casings with a further one casing on the transition strip separating main bedroom and landing and a further one casing on the landing.

A theory exists that a police officer carried a casing on his boot from the kitchen to the landing as only 3 casings were found in the kitchen when the pathology report indicates NB sustained 4 gunshot wounds in the kitchen.  However this is just a theory there's no hard evidence to prove or disprove it.  The casing may have slipped down some nook or cranny in the kitchen or got lost in the clean up. 

To sustain your theory that NB was shot in the main bedroom you need to divide up one whole casing DRH/7 and create 7a and 7b even though no such exhibits exist and promote the theory that casing DRH/14 was transferred by a police officer's boot from the kitchen to the landing. 

My theory that NB was shot twice on the two stairs preceding the entrance to the main bedroom and twice on the main stairs doesn't require whole casing DRH/7 to morph into 7a and 7b which have never featured as a recognised exhibit.  Nor does it require a police officer to transfer a bullet under his boot from the kitchen to the landing.

11 casings were found in the bedroom.  I didn't make up DRH/7 morphing into 2 cases I was accurate about it being 2 cases.  There would be a case missing no matter what if DRH/7 were only 1 case so that alone should clue you in that you are wrong.  You are living in fantasyland.  Firing at him on the stairs from inside the bedroom doorway would not result in a casing landing in the doorway it would land near the chair because it is ejected right not left.

Worse yet your claims of Nevill being shot on the stairs is physically impossible.  I already demonstrated it is impossible to fire shots at the angles of the wounds unless someone were shooting through the wall. Shooting from the doorway one could ONLY SEE and TARGET the middle of Nevill's back to the right side of his back.  He wasn't shot in the back at all he was shot while Nevill's left profile was facing the shooter.  Your theories are absurd and deserve being made fun of. 

The diagram you place so much stock in states 13 cases were found in the bedroom and asserts DRH/14 was associated with a shot to June! 



It lists DRH 1 and 2 as being associated with the shots to Sheila

It asserts June suffered a shot to her head and another between her eyes in a second episode and that the casings associated with such were DRH/13 and 14. 

It says the other 10 found in the bedroom were associated with 5 shots to Nevill and 5 to June during the first episode.  SUBSEQUENTLY they found out that Nevill was shot only 4 times in the bedroom not 5 and that in fact DRH/14 was a missing casing from the kitchen.  They also found out that June's head wound was delivered while she was in bed not in a second episode only the shot between her eyes was delivered in a second episode. So they still maintained DRH/13 was from the shot between her eyes but changed to concluding DRH/14 was from the kitchen. They determined only 4 (not 5) of the other 10 casings in the bedroom were associated with Nevill so an additional of these had to be associated with a shot to June (6 instead of 5 like they originally thought).

Given you studied this case so much longer than me one has to wonder how you can be so wrong always about basic facts. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Scipio I did not assert that June was shot a total of 8 times.  I simply stated that the following document attributes all four bullets found in the bedroom to June.

[Holly Goodhead]

Scipio if you persist with this notion that casing DRH/7 equates to 2 separate casings then you deserve to be lumped together with Mike, JB and the CT.  Claiming DRH/7 equates to 2 separate casings is on par with the aforementioned claiming 2 dead bodies in the kitchen and 2 telephone calls. 

Worse still you attempt to liken the two bullets with exhibit label DRH/35 to the one casing with exhibit label DRH/7.  There is no comparison.  The reason there are two bullets with exhibit label DRH/35 is that the bullets were embedded in the pillow unbeknown to SoC officers.  When the pillow arrived at the lab for forensic analysis the two bullets were identified and hence the two bullets found by FSS simply retained the exhibit label DRH/35 which pertains to the pillow. SoC officers identified DRH/7 at the SoC.  It becomes plainly obvious DRH/7 relates to one casing from DC Hammersley's trial testimony.  Where two casings are referred to simply relates to the fact that two casings were found under the wardrobe DRH/7 and DRH/43 and two casings can be seen in crime scene photo 40.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=201

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=165.0;attach=219

The above can all be evidenced by crime scene photo 40: One casing DRH/7 and one casing DRH/43: two cases found under the wardrobe.