Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[Mr Gray]

Maybe you need to make yourself clearer.

you need to read the posts more carefully in the context made and you would see the posts I have made are not at all contradictory....

[Jean-Pierre]

Can witness statements be used against a witness in court....in the Uk a suspect has to be cautioned first

Dave - you need to think that through logically.

[Mr Gray]

Dave - you need to think that through logically.

I have and I have reached a conclusion...just wanted to see if yours was the same...if the pj cannot ask questions that would incriminate then the information cannot be used....is your view the same

[Carana]

I have and I have reached a conclusion...just wanted to see if yours was the same...if the pj cannot ask questions that would incriminate then the information cannot be used....is your view the same

Portuguese legal procedure changes every time you blink. AFAIK, the version valid back then was the 2000 one.

[Mr Gray]

Portuguese legal procedure changes every time you blink. AFAIK, the version valid back then was the 2000 one.

so none of the mccanns witness statements could be used in evidence against them

[Carana]

A key issue in the Cipriano case was whether or not a "reconstruction" constituted a "confession" or not. The defence argued that it was not admissible, but it was over-ruled by the SC as being of a different form of evidence and was therefore admissible.

As this "recontruction" involved a "confession" in which João involved Leonor in the scenario (even though she wasn't present at this event), that was her cooked.

The fact that João couldn't even work out how to get this dismembered doll into the fridge without prompting doesn't appear to have bothered anyone.

[Carana]

so none of the mccanns witness statements could be used in evidence against them

As the procedural codes keep changing, I'd have to check back on that.

[slartibartfast]

As the procedural codes keep changing, I'd have to check back on that.

Sounds reasonable. In the UK you would have to be read your rights (become arguido) before your evidence could be used against you.

[mercury]

So you don't think the fact that Amaral was made an Arguido on 4th May in relation to his previous missing child case should have aroused any interest at all in that situation by people following the McCann case?  Seriously?

And yet you have often brought up the Barry George case in relation to Andy Redwood.   Can you explain the difference please which IYO makes that OK for you to do?

Barry Georges conviction was quashed as it was so obviously unsafe even to the blnd and deaf
He was convicted on questionable evidence and just one solitary piece
The ciprianos have lost all their appeals
There was more than enough evidence to convict in the judges and jurors eyes
Hardly the same situation
Chalk and cheese
What part Redwood played in that I dont know
Amaral being made arguido... Was years after the event, you have to ask why
It certainly might have raised interest but thats about it
You keep talking about fitting up of the Mccanns, just how would this ever have happened...it wouldnt, so the whole  idea is moot / null and void IMO
The police only acted in questioning as many police forces do ...ask questions based on what they know and what they suspect,and how the whole interpretation goes down, they would be crap police if they didnt....
You also would be remiss into not researching the role payed by a certain psychic  lawyer

[Carana]

Sounds reasonable. In the UK you would have to be read your rights (become arguido) before your evidence could be used against you.

I'm lost. Davel was asking about how witness statements could be used, but you are talking about statements as arguidos. Substantial changes came into force just after the McCanns were made arguidos, but they have continued to evolve since. Some of the changes have had a knock-on effect on others, and thus on consequences.

[Carana]

Barry Georges conviction was quashed as it was so obviously unsafe even to the blnd and deaf
He was convicted on questionable evidence and just one solitary piece
The ciprianos have lost all their appeals
There was more than enough evidence to convict in the judges and jurors eyes
Hardly the same situation
Chalk and cheese
What part Redwood played in that I dont know
Amaral being made arguido... Was years after the event, you have to ask why
It certainly might have raised interest but thats about it
You keep talking about fitting up of the Mccanns, just how would this ever have happened...it wouldnt, so the whole  idea is moot / null and void IMO
The police only acted in questioning as many police forces do ...ask questions based on what they know and what they suspect,and how the whole interpretation goes down, they would be crap police if they didnt....
You also would be remiss into not researching the role payed by a certain psychic  lawyer

Picking up on one point:
"Amaral being made arguido... Was years after the event, you have to ask why"


The PT legal system may sometimes appear to work in mysterious ways, but surely not to the point of making the coordinator of an investigation an arguido over one case overnight due to the fact that a different child had gone missing a few hours earlier... yet kept him on the case.

It might keep the [ censored word ]s happy, but I doubt that it was more than a coincidence.

As an example: A police disciplinary investigation was conducted into Cristovão in 2005 over the Cipriano case, which resulted in 120 days suspension... which he appealed and the yoyo went on, but it wasn't until 2012 that an official notice was published rejecting his appeal.

http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/paulo-pereira-cristovao/ministra-nega-recurso-a-pereira-cristovao-de-pena-aplicada-pela-pj


The Portuguese system was simply slow. The numerous changes that have taken place are attempts to speed it up.

[Mr Gray]

Barry Georges conviction was quashed as it was so obviously unsafe even to the blnd and deaf
He was convicted on questionable evidence and just one solitary piece
The ciprianos have lost all their appeals
There was more than enough evidence to convict in the judges and jurors eyes
Hardly the same situation
Chalk and cheese
What part Redwood played in that I dont know
Amaral being made arguido... Was years after the event, you have to ask why
It certainly might have raised interest but thats about it
You keep talking about fitting up of the Mccanns, just how would this ever have happened...it wouldnt, so the whole  idea is moot / null and void IMO
The police only acted in questioning as many police forces do ...ask questions based on what they know and what they suspect,and how the whole interpretation goes down, they would be crap police if they didnt....
You also would be remiss into not researching the role payed by a certain psychic  lawyer

there was no evidence apart from the questionable confessions...according to montclair no one wins an appeal in portugal.....there must be a possibility of a miscarriage of justice...even to the blind and deaf. There have been a lot posted here with no cites to support it

Barry George had quite a history of criminal behaviour....it has not been established he was innocent...he may well be.....

The PJ were right to treat the McCanns as suspects...but...they did not understand either the dogs or the dna...they tried to build a case against the McCanns based on false evidence...that is afact

[Eleanor]

there was no evidence apart from the questionable confessions...according to montclair no one wins an appeal in portugal.....there must be a possibility of a miscarriage of justice...even to the blind and deaf. There have been a lot posted here with no cites to support it

Barry George had quite a history of criminal behaviour....it has not been established he was innocent...he may well be.....

The PJ were right to treat the McCanns as suspects...but...they did not understand either the dogs or the dna...they tried to build a case against the McCanns based on false evidence...that is afact

It was quite obvious to some of us of what was going on even before we knew about The Ciprianos, and so much more became plain when we did.

I honestly don't know what Amaral thought he was up to, other than to prove he was right on the first count.  Perhaps even the fear of being made an Arguido himself.
I don't think he deliberately decided to stitch up The McCanns, just that it suited his agenda if he could prove that they were guilty.  Especially Kate McCann.  Silly really.  He wasn't dealing with uneducated peasants on this occasion.

[stephen25000]

Fitting up of the mccanns ?

A mere cliche, rolled out time and time again.

The PJ were directed by UK police to investigate the mccanns, as would have happened in any police investigation.

No evidence could be found of abduction, and as it stands right now, `the current investigations are empty handed.

As to the Cipriano's, merely a stick to beat Amaral with, and let's not forget the woman is a perjurer, yet certain people believe everything she says.

P.S. It remains a fact that nmccann supporters always conveniently overlook, that the PJ were investigating parental involvement.

NO MATTER who led the investigation team, the mccanns would have been investigated. The lack of evidence for abduction, which as I said remains the case, would inevitably point to the parents.

[Mr Gray]

Fitting up of the mccanns ?

A mere cliche, rolled out time and time again.

The PJ were directed by UK police to investigate the mccanns, as would have happened in any police investigation.

No evidence could be found of abduction, and as it stands right now, `the current investigations are empty handed.

As to the Cipriano's, merely a stick to beat Amaral with, and let's not forget the woman is a perjurer, yet certain people believe everything she says.

amaral is also a perjurer...and he was the lead invesigator........he and the PJ misunderstood the evidence...

as an arguido he shouldn't even have been allowed near the investigation