Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[Mr Gray]

But you have agreed that what you believe is based on second hand information so how can you know for sure what happened ?

Everything re this quoted by you and others on this is second hand. What we do know for cerrtain...first hand is taht she was tortured by the PJ...and from the trial...there was no real evidence against her...those are facts

[faithlilly]

I can't.  That's the point.

So your bias colours your opinion, not facts. Am I correct.

[Mr Gray]

So your bias colours your opinion, not facts. Am I correct.

just as it colours everyone's ...some more than others

[Eleanor]

So your bias colours your opinion, not facts. Am I correct.

No, you aren't. My "Bias" is based on common sense.  And the whole thing is decidedly iffy.

If any suspect leaves a Police Station looking like she did, it would suggest to any normal person that the conviction was unsafe.

[faithlilly]

No, you aren't. My "Bias" is based on common sense.  And the whole thing is decidedly iffy.

If any suspect leaves a Police Station looking like she did, it would suggest to any normal person that the conviction was unsafe.

But we don't know how she left the police station, do we ? The provenance of the photographs were questioned in court, an employee of the prison Cipriano was taken to testified that they were asked to change reports as to Cipriano's wellbeing when entering the prison. Another prisoner testified that Cipriano was beaten up by other inmates. There are no photographs of the knee injuries resulting from Cipriano kneeling on glass ashtrays as alleged. Cipriano accused certain officers and when her testimony proved false claimed she had a bag over her head with tortured so couldn't identify anyone. That is just a small sample of the contradictions contained within her, many, statements.

So how in heaven's name could 'common sense' lead you to believe Cipriano was telling the truth ?

[Mr Gray]

But we don't know how she left the police station, do we ? The provenance of the photographs were questioned in court, an employee of the prison Cipriano was taken to testified that they were asked to change reports as to Cipriano's wellbeing when entering the prison. Another prisoner testified that Cipriano was beaten up by other inmates. There are no photographs of the knee injuries resulting from Cipriano kneeling on glass ashtrays as alleged. Cipriano accused certain officers and when her testimony proved false claimed she had a bag over her head with tortured so couldn't identify anyone. That is just a small sample of the contradictions contained within her, many, statements.

So how in heaven's name could 'common sense' lead you to believe Cipriano was telling the truth ?

the fact that the pj lied in court and claimed she fell down the stairs proves they were covering up for their own actions

[Eleanor]

But we don't know how she left the police station, do we ? The provenance of the photographs were questioned in court, an employee of the prison Cipriano was taken to testified that they were asked to change reports as to Cipriano's wellbeing when entering the prison. Another prisoner testified that Cipriano was beaten up by other inmates. There are no photographs of the knee injuries resulting from Cipriano kneeling on glass ashtrays as alleged. Cipriano accused certain officers and when her testimony proved false claimed she had a bag over her head with tortured so couldn't identify anyone. That is just a small sample of the contradictions contained within her, many, statements.

So how in heaven's name could 'common sense' lead you to believe Cipriano was telling the truth ?

Amaral was convicted of Perjury.

[faithlilly]

Amaral was convicted of Perjury.

Indeed.

In her torture trial the judge stated that she had lied. She had her sentence extended because she lied. Yet you concur with a verdict based to a great extent on the testimony of this woman. Can you truly say Amaral's conviction is safe based on the above ?

[Mr Gray]

Indeed.

In her torture trial the judge stated that she had lied. She had her sentence extended because she lied. Yet you concur with a verdict based to a great extent on the testimony of this woman. Can you truly say Amaral's conviction is safe based on the above ?

the conviction was secured on the testimony of the PJ....claiming she fell down the stairs was a pretty stupid thing to do...but it shows how arrogant they were...how untouchable they felt...

[Eleanor]

Indeed.

In her torture trial the judge stated that she had lied. She had her sentence extended because she lied. Yet you concur with a verdict based to a great extent on the testimony of this woman. Can you truly say Amaral's conviction is safe based on the above ?

The evidence against Amaral was signed by his own hand.

[stephen25000]

Everything re this quoted by you and others on this is second hand. What we do know for cerrtain...first hand is taht she was tortured by the PJ...and from the trial...there was no real evidence against her...those are facts

No, those aren't the facts, they are your opinion, biased for obvious reasons.

[stephen25000]

Amaral was convicted of Perjury.

Cipriano , sentence extended because of perjury.

Have you forgotten ?

[carlymichelle]

Cipriano , sentence extended because of perjury.

Have you forgotten ?

both davel and  Eleanor have admitted they left their children home alone on their own i think that biases their opinions

[Angelo222]

Amaral was convicted of Perjury.

Perjury is defined universally as the giving of a false statement whilst under oath ie in a court.  To be convicted of perjury requires charges to be brought after the trial which was what happened in Leonor Cipriano's case.  Amaral never faced perjury charges so was never convicted of perjury.  His conviction related solely to the altering of police records.

Had he not had political ambitions he would never have been convicted on such trivial charges.

[Alice Purjorick]

According to montclair there has never been a successful appeal against such a crime in portugal. I find your view very narrow minded and naieve...but I'm sure you don't think much of mine.
For someone who is interested in miscarriages of justice `you seem to have no interest in  a possible case.
As regards the confessions....the prosecution were allowed to play a video of Jaoa's confession to the court ...which evidently should not be allowed...against the wishes of the defence. The obviously did not show a video of Leonora's confession

Green bit: maybe so but how many such crimes have been committed in Portugal since the mid seventies? It still does not prevent the lodging of an appeal does it?
Red bit: Why?
Blue bit: Who is leading the charge on this apart from a few McCann supporters on fora such as this?
Maroon bit: If there were a breach of process and legal procedures that would be grounds for appeal.
So forgetting what Montclair says which may be right or wrong we don't know. If there are so many grounds for appeal why has one not been lodged?