Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[Brietta]

"Whoever took Joana took Madeleine too, the distance is too small. And the police ignored everything we told them, they just wanted to solve the case quickly.''

Pure speculation.

Funny that 'the doubters' pick and choose the quotes which suit to run with.  Mark William Thomas seems to have been fine when he spoke about 'woke and wandered' among the theories for the disappearance of a child.

He even has a dedicated thread on this theory on the forum.

**Snip
Criminologist and child protection expert Mark Williams-Thomas believes there are far too many similarities between the two cases for it not to be a strong line of police inquiry.

He says that because of the huge doubts over the Cipriano convictions, whoever abducted Joana is more than likely to be behind Madeleine's disappearance.

Like Madeleine's case, the police investigation got off to a bad start, with officers failing to seal off the house where she was last seen.
http://news.sky.com/story/603144/disturbing-similarities-with-madeleine


The difficulties inherent in the same co-ordinator whose actions in the Cipriano case had resulted in him being made an arguido the day after Madeleine's disappearance was surely a recipe for disaster.

[stephen25000]

Funny that 'the doubters' pick and choose the quotes which suit to run with.  Mark William Thomas seems to have been fine when he spoke about 'woke and wandered' among the theories for the disappearance of a child.

He even has a dedicated thread on this theory on the forum.

**Snip
Criminologist and child protection expert Mark Williams-Thomas believes there are far too many similarities between the two cases for it not to be a strong line of police inquiry.

He says that because of the huge doubts over the Cipriano convictions, whoever abducted Joana is more than likely to be behind Madeleine's disappearance.

Like Madeleine's case, the police investigation got off to a bad start, with officers failing to seal off the house where she was last seen.
http://news.sky.com/story/603144/disturbing-similarities-with-madeleine


The difficulties inherent in the same co-ordinator whose actions in the Cipriano case had resulted in him being made an arguido the day after Madeleine's disappearance was surely a recipe for disaster.

Ah, snip time again.

When will you accept that no evidence has been found to show an abduction took place.

The only known facts are:

Madeleine disappeared from the apartment; and the mccanns were the last known people to have see her alive.

[Mr Gray]

On what basis?
I have no liking for police brutality and believe in justice for all, even the ones we don't like. Which seems to be anathema to some around here.
So in the absence of the transcripts of the proceedings on what basis do you hold your opinion about Cipriano vis a vis a miscarriage of justice?

There is enough in the public domain
Partial transcripts of the trial
Newspaper reports from Portugal
That show there was absolutely no evidence to support the prosecutors case
There is such a void of evidence that it is absolutely astonishing
Supposed human blood in the fridge..... Yet no forensic match to Joanna
The lack of evidence is overwhelming

note.... i am not saying there has been a miscarriage of justice....but it looks extremely possible

[Brietta]

Ah, snip time again.

When will you accept that no evidence has been found to show an abduction took place.

The only known facts are:

Madeleine disappeared from the apartment; and the mccanns were the last known people to have seen her alive.

Among the similarities of the conduct of the investigation into Joana's disappearance and Madeleine's disappearance is the shameful vitriolic press campaign mounted in the main against the mothers of both children.

Similar mumbo jumbo techniques of investigation were employed; for example the black top worn by Joana's mother was interpreted as a harbinger of Joana's death; the 'interpretation' of an alleged dream was promulgated as indicative of Madeleine's mother's knowledge of her death.

The difference is that Leonor Cipriano is an ill educated Portuguese woman, investigated by her own country's police and tried and convicted by her own country's legal system.

Dr Kate McCann is a well educated British woman who was protected by her British nationality and the eyes of the world from the Portuguese legal system which had dispatched Leonor Cipriano to what would have been oblivion had Madeleine McCann not vanished a short drive away from the place Joana Cipriano vanished from.

Another similarity is that neither child has been found.
One perhaps because no-one has been looking for her.  The other because the golden hours after she vanished were squandered and the resources of the investigation squandered in the attempt to replicate the Cipriano 'coup'.  IMO

[Alice Purjorick]

Among the similarities of the conduct of the investigation into Joana's disappearance and Madeleine's disappearance is the shameful vitriolic press campaign mounted in the main against the mothers of both children.

Similar mumbo jumbo techniques of investigation were employed; for example the black top worn by Joana's mother was interpreted as a harbinger of Joana's death; the 'interpretation' of an alleged dream was promulgated as indicative of Madeleine's mother's knowledge of her death.

The difference is that Leonor Cipriano is an ill educated Portuguese woman, investigated by her own country's police and tried and convicted by her own country's legal system.

Dr Kate McCann is a well educated British woman who was protected by her British nationality and the eyes of the world from the Portuguese legal system which had dispatched Leonor Cipriano to what would have been oblivion had Madeleine McCann not vanished a short drive away from the place Joana Cipriano vanished from.

Another similarity is that neither child has been found.
One perhaps because no-one has been looking for her.  The other because the golden hours after she vanished were squandered and the resources of the investigation squandered in the attempt to replicate the Cipriano 'coup'.  IMO

Portugal has been on Amnesty International's list since the inception of that organisation in the early 1960s.
Amnesty say:
"Amnesty International has never been able to take up all the cases that come to our attention. We take up cases which are for example particularly grave, which are emblematic of a problem we are trying to address, where success in one case will have resonance for many others and where we think we can make a difference".
They seem to have given the Cipriano case a wide berth vis a vis getting in there and making the dust fly.
I wonder why that would be. Apart from being too busy.

[Benice]

Ah, snip time again.

When will you accept that no evidence has been found to show an abduction took place.

The only known facts are:

Madeleine disappeared from the apartment; and the mccanns were the last known people to have seen her alive.

Once again you make no attempt whatsoever to challenge the post or give any reasons why you disagree with it.
Instead you post  Off Topic in an effort to deflect and derail the thread imo.

[stephen25000]

Once again you make no attempt whatsoever to challenge the post or give any reasons why you disagree with it.
Instead you post  Off Topic in an effort to deflect and derail the thread imo.

I merely stated facts Benice.

This attempt to link the two cases together revolves around Amaral.

Apart from the fact that of two children , one declared dead, and her mother and uncle convicted of her murder, and in the mccann case, fate unknown, NOTHING has been found to show the cases have a common cause of disappearance.

It is remarkable how mccann supporters now realizing the current investigations are going nowhere, not that they admit that, are clinging on to anything.

[Angelo222]

Q. Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

A. Because promoting the notion of an abduction in the Cipriano case keeps alive the notion of an abduction in Maddie's

Joana Cipriano was killed by her own family after years of neglect.  Sadie tried for ages to show she was a loved child who wanted for nothing but this was a lie.  Poor little Joana was passed from pillar to post like a stray puppy.  She lived in a tent for a while in a strangers garden and had to walk miles to school every day. Neighbours did their best to help her.  Countless complaints were made to social services about her.  Teachers were so concerned about her they went to see her at home.  It was only when Leandro Silva came to get involved with her mother that things began to settle down for a while but the unsettling influence of her criminal thug uncle John was always there in the background.  The poor little mite hadn't a hope in hell of a normal life.

Maddie's case has nothing in common with Joana's.

[stephen25000]

Q. Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

A. Because promoting the notion of an abduction in the Cipriano case keeps alive the notion of an abduction in Maddie's

You got it in one Angelo.

[Brietta]

Q. Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

A. Because promoting the notion of an abduction in the Cipriano case keeps alive the notion of an abduction in Maddie's

Joana Cipriano was killed by her own family after years of neglect.  Sadie tried for ages to show she was a loved child who wanted for nothing but this was a lie.  Poor little Joana was passed from pillar to post like a stray puppy.  She lived in a tent for a while in a strangers garden and had to walk miles to school every day. Neighbours did their best to help her.  Countless complaints were made to social services about her.  Teachers were so concerned about her they went to see her at home.  It was only when Leandro Silva came to get involved with her mother that things began to settle down for a while but the unsettling influence of her criminal thug uncle John was always there in the background.  The poor little mite hadn't a hope in hell of a normal life.

Maddie's case has nothing in common with Joana's.

Conversely ... Acceptance of Madeleine's disappearance as fact would have called into question the circumstances of Joana's disappearance and the resolution of it.
I believe that neither the Portuguese authorities of the time nor Goncalo Amaral would have welcomed either premise.

[Carana]

Q. Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

A. Because promoting the notion of an abduction in the Cipriano case keeps alive the notion of an abduction in Maddie's

Joana Cipriano was killed by her own family after years of neglect.  Sadie tried for ages to show she was a loved child who wanted for nothing but this was a lie.  Poor little Joana was passed from pillar to post like a stray puppy.  She lived in a tent for a while in a strangers garden and had to walk miles to school every day. Neighbours did their best to help her.  Countless complaints were made to social services about her.  Teachers were so concerned about her they went to see her at home.  It was only when Leandro Silva came to get involved with her mother that things began to settle down for a while but the unsettling influence of her criminal thug uncle John was always there in the background.  The poor little mite hadn't a hope in hell of a normal life.

Maddie's case has nothing in common with Joana's.

Erm.... Angelo. Are you sure you're talking about the right child?

[Carana]

It is a bit of a two way street with Joana Cipriano's family voicing their support for Madeleine McCann's family in that they seem to be of the opinion the same police negligence is applicable to both Joana's and Madeleine's case.


'Disturbing Similarities' With Madeleine

By Alex Watts

The family of a girl who vanished just seven miles from the Portuguese resort where Madeleine McCann disappeared are convinced the cases are connected.

**Snip
"Whoever took Joana took Madeleine too, the distance is too small. And the police ignored everything we told them, they just wanted to solve the case quickly.

"They didn't look at any of the things we told them about."

They said the most crucial bit of evidence was a white and brown camper van, parked near Joana's home in the days before she was abducted.

The vehicle, with German number plates, disappeared around the time she vanished.

They added: "There was a man living in there, but he hardly left the van. A week later the van was found abandoned in farmland in Praia da Luz. We told the police to investigate it, but they didn't listen to us."

http://news.sky.com/story/603144/disturbing-similarities-with-madeleine

There might not be any connection at all, but the fact that two young girls vanished 10km away from each other is certainly a lead that I hope has been investigated.

Sadly, I doubt that the Cipriano investigation ever got as far as collecting, let alone examining, phone activity.

[ferryman]

Erm.... Angelo. Are you sure you're talking about the right child?

If the subject-matter weren't so serious, that response would reduce me to fits of laughter.

Let's just say the question is fair ....

And I suspect much of the background in the post Carana responds to comes from a disgraced ex-Portuguese cop (for once, not Amaral) ...

[Angelo222]

Erm.... Angelo. Are you sure you're talking about the right child?

Absolutely Carana, the neighbours, social services, the teachers and Leandro didn't lie!!

[Angelo222]

There might not be any connection at all, but the fact that two young girls vanished 10km away from each other is certainly a lead that I hope has been investigated.

Sadly, I doubt that the Cipriano investigation ever got as far as collecting, let alone examining, phone activity.

Well there certainly wasn't any by Leonor.