Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[Mr Gray]

I don't know.
As you say you have read extensively on the subject perhaps you will be kind enough to tell us the content of the charge sheet. Or better yet provide a link to it.

I get the impression you are trying to deflect from my questioning of the  evidence..

[Alice Purjorick]

I get the impression you are trying to deflect from my questioning of the  evidence..

The conversation you trunked into was between me and Carana about a 200 page charge sheet. The word evidence was not used except by you. Your post would seem to have been the deflection old stick.
Now was there a 200 page charge as per the link posted or not ?

[Mr Gray]

The conversation you trunked into was between me and Carana about a 200 page charge sheet. The word evidence was not used except by you. Your post would seem to have been the deflection old stick.
Now was there a 200 page charge as per the link posted or not ?

I read the link you posted and 99% of it concerned the allegations made...that's what I commented on...i think that is perfectly reasonable

[stephen25000]

No matter what some would imply, there is evidence against the Cipriano's.

It does not require a body to have a murder conviction.

L. Cipriano's evidence has to be judged in the contract of her changing stories, which resulted in the conviction for perjury.


These are in the court conviction, and of course are available on the internet, via a quick search.


The FACTS remain.

The woman and her brother are convicted murderers.

Joana disappeared, and no trace of her has been found.

Cipriano's sentence was extended because of PERJURY.

[stephen25000]

The judgement against Cipriano for perjury, a matter of public record.  Easily accessed.

and for those in denial, yet again, a link.

There are plenty more.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html

[Alice Purjorick]

I read the link you posted and 99% of it concerned the allegations made...that's what I commented on...i think that is perfectly reasonable

The issue was the comment in the link about a 200 page charge document. The link is where I found that information. The conversation I was having with Carana did not concern anything other than that.

[Alfred R Jones]

The McCanns aren't convicted child murderers so quite acceptable I'd say.

So as the McCanns are not suspects either is it unacceptable to say that there is evidence of wrong-doing by them?

[faithlilly]

So as the McCanns are not suspects either is it unacceptable to say that there is evidence of wrong-doing by them?

No.

[Alfred R Jones]

No.

Why not?

[Alfred R Jones]

Is it your opinion or is it an established fact?
How has it been established by you there is no evidence?

If there is actual forensic evidence in this case such as that listed by the PhD student in his or her article, then what is it?  Let's have the list.  It seems we are not allowed to say it's an established fact that there is no evidence in the Cipriano case - are you trying to get Davel banned?

[Admin]

Could a moderator explain why it is acceptable to say there is evidence against cipriano ...but when I said there wasn't any real evidence i was effectively banned...this is the Justice forum after all.

i have now provided evidence to back my claim...perhaps stephen would have the courtesy to do the same...

Let's be clear davel since I know you like to split hairs.   You posted that there was "no evidence against the Ciprianos" which I pointed out last night was untrue and extremely insulting of the Portuguese justice system.  I will agree however that had they not admitted involvement in Joana's disappearance then that evidence could have been seen as incapable of sustaining a conviction.

[Mr Gray]

Is it your opinion or is it an established fact?
How has it been established by you there is no evidence?

red.....you need to read the post again

My post supports the lack of evidence...this is a totally independent portuguese source...no one on here...including the portuguese posters have been able to post any real evidence apart from the confessions.....so where is it...does it exist

[Alice Purjorick]

If there is actual forensic evidence in this case such as that listed by the PhD student in his or her article, then what is it?  Let's have the list. It seems we are not allowed to say it's an established fact that there is no evidence in the Cipriano case - are you trying to get Davel banned?

That, as they say, is nothing to do with me pal. It would seem the forum owners and administrators have introduced that. There is the outside chance it was done because it is true I wouldn't know I haven't read all the documents. If you and davel have you could post links so the rest of us can read and inwardly digest rather than complain how unjust the site is. As for trying to get davel an OBE he is doing fine on his own collecting points, being moderated and temporarily banned without my assistance.

[Admin]

An abject failure, both by the Portuguese judiciary and members of this board to understand that proven torture renders a whole judicial process null and void is the falsehood.

Everyone accepts they were tortured, everyone accepts they confessed.  In Law the former might very well negate the latter but that doesn't render murderers innocent in the real world.

What you are effectively suggesting is that the convictions should be overturned on the basis that they were tortured.  That is a legal matter and does not change the facts as known to us which clearly indicate they are both culpable.

[Mr Gray]

Let's be clear davel since I know you like to split hairs.   You posted that there was "no evidence against the Ciprianos" which I pointed out last night was untrue and extremely insulting of the Portuguese justice system.  I will agree however that had they not admitted involvement in Joana's disappearance then that evidence could have been seen as incapable of sustaining a conviction.

As far as I remember all my posts were stated as my opinion or..I had not seen any real evidence...or i believe....

You admit that the evidence on its own  would not have sustained a conviction...so apart from the confessions you accept that there was no real evidence to convict the ciprianos...what was this evidence by the way..

Why am I not allowed to question this verdict...why do you see it as insulting the portuguese justice system...

every justice system makes mistakes...there has been lots of insults towards SY on here...

I still have not seen any real evidence against the cipriano's...it's quite simple to silence me rather than award 40 points and prevent me from posting...simply post the evidence...it really is that easy..isn't it