Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[Carana]

and Correia was paid to go after Amaral.

According to whom?

[Alfred R Jones]

Can you let me know how many I need to find before you are satisfied?

As many as it takes to prove the point you were trying to make, ie: "In general tabloids take a story from a source or other paper and embroider it. You can identify from where stories have been borrowed by the embroidery they have".  If the DM is the source for the claim then which other tabloids picked up on it and embroidered it?  If the DM is not the source for the claim then who was?

[Jean-Pierre]

Correia ousted John Grade just before the five PJ officers went on trial.  John Grade represented Leonor during her trial and Sara Rosado represented her brother John.

So are you saying that Correia was respresented Leonora Cipriano at her original trial in 2005? 

"Quote from: Angelo222 on Today at 01:32:17 PM

    She confessed before the examining magistrate, no torture on that occasion.  She only changed her mind after Correia had a word in her ear.  Fact!"

I think we need a cite for that "fact" based on the rules of this forum. 

[Carana]

You have to remember that Portugal only saw democracy from 1974 and before that it had a fascist right wing regime.  It takes a long time and many generations for a country to recover from a dictatorial past.

I agree with you on that point.

[slartibartfast]

As many as it takes to prove the point you were trying to make, ie: "In general tabloids take a story from a source or other paper and embroider it. You can identify from where stories have been borrowed by the embroidery they have".  If the DM is the source for the claim then which other tabloids picked up on it and embroidered it?  If the DM is not the source for the claim then who was?

Sorry not playing. If you want another thread on what original journalism is undertaken by the tabloid press feel free.

[Eleanor]

You read too much into the McCann case.  Surely you don't really think the Portuguese legislators give a stuff?

Really?  You think that the Portuguese Legislators don't give a stuff?  Well, well, carry on hoping.  Torture Rules, okay.
And you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to accommodate this.  I had thought better of you.

[Eleanor]

He was one of the Lisbon DCCB boys sent down on 11 October 2004 to, erm, give a hand.

5. Em 11 de Outubro de 2004, uma equipa da Direcção Central do Combate ao Banditismo (DCCB) da Polícia Judiciária de Lisboa deslocou-se para o Algarve para dar apoio á Directoria de Faro na investigação daquele inquérito;

6. A equipa era constituída pelo arguido Leonel Morgado Marques, inspector- chefe, que a chefiava; e pelos inspectores Paulo António Pereira Cristóvão, Paulo Afonso Sá da Costa Marques Bom e António Fernando Nunes Cardoso, também arguidos; e ainda pelos inspectores Pedro Baptista Marques, Carlos Dordonnat e um outro inspector;

Thought so.  But thanks for the confirmation.

[Carana]

My understanding so far seems to incorporate some points made by both sides, but not others.

[Angelo222]

So are you saying that Correia was respresented Leonora Cipriano at her original trial in 2005? 

"Quote from: Angelo222 on Today at 01:32:17 PM

    She confessed before the examining magistrate, no torture on that occasion.  She only changed her mind after Correia had a word in her ear.  Fact!"

I think we need a cite for that "fact" based on the rules of this forum.

My apologies, Correia only became interested in the case when according to him, he was asked by Metodo 3 to look into it. 
He ousted John Grade on the eve of the trial of the five PJ officers after secretly visiting Leonor Cipriano in Odemira Prison.

[Jean-Pierre]

Thank you for "correcting" the facts around Grade and Correia.

The problem is that when subject to close examination, the certainties about Leonoro's conviction start to slip away. 

For example, there was also a bit of a problem with the subsequent post

"Quote from: Angelo222 on Today at 01:32:17 PM

    She confessed before the examining magistrate, no torture on that occasion."

Posters have been threatened with sanctions by "da management" of this forum for suggesting that there is no real evidence against Leonoro Cipriano.  Well - what IS the case against her?

[Carana]

From a link cited earlier:


On the day of the last session of this trial, on the 16th of January, Leonor Cipriano's lawyer, Marcos Aragão Correia, read out a press note in which he informed that Joana's mother had revealed new facts concerning the disappearance of her daughter, recently documented and signed at the prison of Odemira, where she is currently being detained.

According to the lawyer, little Joana's uncle, João Cipriano, convinced his sister, Leonor Cipriano, to deliver her daughter into the care of strangers, in exchange for financial help.

Former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral, when confronted with the new facts, on the day of the last trial session, classified the statements that change Leonor Cipriano's initial deposition as "lies".

I'm afraid that I'm bewildered by this....

Whoever's idea it was, as her lawyer, why on earth did Correia find that this was going to be helpful?

[Angelo222]

From a link cited earlier:


On the day of the last session of this trial, on the 16th of January, Leonor Cipriano's lawyer, Marcos Aragão Correia, read out a press note in which he informed that Joana's mother had revealed new facts concerning the disappearance of her daughter, recently documented and signed at the prison of Odemira, where she is currently being detained.

According to the lawyer, little Joana's uncle, João Cipriano, convinced his sister, Leonor Cipriano, to deliver her daughter into the care of strangers, in exchange for financial help.

Former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral, when confronted with the new facts, on the day of the last trial session, classified the statements that change Leonor Cipriano's initial deposition as "lies".

I'm afraid that I'm bewildered by this....

Whoever's idea it was, as her lawyer, why on earth did Correia find that this was going to be helpful?

Why bewildered Carana?  Do you not realise by now that Leonor was very easily manipulated both by her brother and by her lawyers.

Correia's involvement with Leonor only came after the Maddie disappearance and only after the McCanns employed Metodo 3.  Prior to this he had no interest in the case.

[Eleanor]

So Correia wasn't Leonor's Lawyer at her original Trial?  I would like an answer to this.

[Angelo222]

Thank you for "correcting" the facts around Grade and Correia.

The problem is that when subject to close examination, the certainties about Leonoro's conviction start to slip away. 

For example, there was also a bit of a problem with the subsequent post

"Quote from: Angelo222 on Today at 01:32:17 PM

    She confessed before the examining magistrate, no torture on that occasion."

Posters have been threatened with sanctions by "da management" of this forum for suggesting that there is no real evidence against Leonoro Cipriano.  Well - what IS the case against her?

I have removed the inaccurate post.  However, Marcos Correia did secretly visit Leonor Cipriano in Odemira Prison after being engaged by Metodo 3.  When I say secretly, I am referring to the fact that as a lawyer he didn't have the courtesy to check with her then lawyer John Grade first.  You could call it 'ambulance chasing'.  Next thing we know Correia turns up on the first day of the trial of the PJ officers and tells John Grade he is no longer required.

[Angelo222]

So Correia wasn't Leonor's Lawyer at her original Trial?  I would like an answer to this.

No, it was John Grade.  Correia represented Leonor as a plaintiff at the PJ trial. 

I'm now going for a lie down in a darkened room!  %&5%£