Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[stephen25000]

SY are still following focussed leads, not resting on their laurels. I realise that displeases those who want to see the parents jailed.

and SY have found ...........

[Eleanor]

Cristovão was involved in the Cipriano case as he was one of the ones sent down by Lisbon... to lend a hand.

So why would that have been?  Why did The PJ need his expertise?  You mean that Portimao couldn't handle this?  So much for Amaral then.  Totally useless it seams.

[Eleanor]

OK - a very trivial small example.  A moderator on this forum stated as a fact, that Correia was Ciprianos lawyer at her original trial.

But he has since retracted, so let's not get too picky about this.  Eh what.

[Jean-Pierre]

But he has since retracted, so let's not get too picky about this.  Eh what.

I know he has Eleanor, and all due credit.   But only after a challenge. It had been stated as "Fact!".

I was merely using this as an example of one of the many things in this case where the "facts" upon which their opinions are founded are, on examination, totally wrong.   

[Carana]

So why would that have been?  Why did The PJ need his expertise?  You mean that Portimao couldn't handle this?  So much for Amaral then.  Totally useless it seams.

The case had been originally handed over from the GNR to the Portimão PJ after a few days when the child still hadn't been found. The Portimão team were ok, according to Leandro.

However, four days after that (21 Sept), the case was taken over by the Faro boys (at the time, Amaral was part of the Faro PJ).

Then, the DCCB boys came from Lisbon (11 Oct).

[Mr Gray]

I know he has Eleanor, and all due credit.   But only after a challenge. It had been stated as "Fact!".

I was merely using this as an example of one of the many things in this case where the "facts" upon which their opinions are founded are, on examination, totally wrong.   

some posters have been treated with contempt on here for simply asking for a cite .......from posters who claim to know all the details on this case. It shows as you say that we are not wrong to question facts and posters should provide cites as forum rules...rather than insult

[Carana]

From my notes:


11 October - Lisbon DCCB team goes to Algarve to support the Faro team.
5. Em 11 de Outubro de 2004, uma equipa da Direcção Central do Combate ao Banditismo (DCCB) da Polícia Judiciária de Lisboa deslocou-se para o Algarve para dar apoio á Directoria de Faro na investigação daquele inquérito;

6. A equipa era constituída pelo arguido Leonel Morgado Marques, inspector- chefe, que a chefiava; e pelos inspectores Paulo António Pereira Cristóvão, Paulo Afonso Sá da Costa Marques Bom e António Fernando Nunes Cardoso, também arguidos; e ainda pelos inspectores Pedro Baptista Marques, Carlos Dordonnat e um outro inspector;

The DCCB seems vaguely equivalent to the Serious Crime Squad or SOCA.


Not that squad's finest hour, but I don't recall anything untoward in that squad's assistance in the McCann case.

It may have had a a sweep of garden leaves by then.

[Mr Gray]

i am interested in the claim that leonora confessed in the presence of her lawyer before the torture...is there any verification for this...apart from the lawyer who was representing the PJ

[Brietta]

i am interested in the claim that leonora confessed in the presence of her lawyer before the torture...is there any verification for this...apart from the lawyer who was representing the PJ

I have only seen what purports to be from a translation of Cristovao's book ...

(1) Both Leonor and Joao Cipriano had already confessed to killing Joana before the three PJ inspectors from Lisbon (Cristovao, Marques Morgada Leonel and Paulo Marques Bom) ever arrived in the Algarve. The problem was that Joao Cipriano, Joana's uncle, kept leading the PJ on wild goose chases around the countryside, claiming that he could not remember where he had put Joana's body. Cristovao, Leonel, and Marques Bom were not sent to Faro to find out whether or not Joana was dead or alive; they already knew she was dead. They were sent to see if they could do anything to help the local police find her body.

[Carana]

i am interested in the claim that leonora confessed in the presence of her lawyer before the torture...is there any verification for this...apart from the lawyer who was representing the PJ

All I can find right now is this:

MÃE CONFESSA MORTE DA FILHA POR ACIDENTE
Várias horas de interrogatório culminaram na confissão do crime. Primeiro João Cipriano assumiu a participação na ocultação do cadáver da sobrinha, depois a mãe de Joana admitiu a autoria do homicídio, praticado contra a menor, na noite do 12 deste mês, na casa onde residiam na Figueira.
26 Setembro 2004 Nº de votos (0) Comentários (15)
Por:José Carlos Eusébio / João Mendes / M.B.

Uma morte acidental, alegou a mulher perante a juíza de instrução do Tribunal de Portimão, Ana Soares, que decretou a prisão preventiva da mulher e mandou o homem em liberdade com a obrigação de apresentar-se diariamente às autoridades.

As medidas de coacção só foram conhecidas cerca das 03h00 da madrugada de ontem, numa altura em que dezenas de populares revoltados ainda se encontravam concentrados à porta do Tribunal (alguns mantiveram-se aí durante todo o dia).

Segundo apurou o Correio da Manhã, o tio da menina assassinada, João Cipriano, que foi o primeiro a ser ouvido pela juíza (esteve a ser interrogado desde meio da tarde até às 21h30), terá inicialmente admitido o crime, mas depois, quando as declarações foram passadas a escrito, o indivíduo acabou por apontar o dedo à irmã, a mãe de Joana.

Not sure of source, most likely CdM.

There was a similar article in which all I can remember is that Leonor was "heard by the judge", then charged.

So... I find it possible that Leonor either spontaneously confessed to a an accidental death over "coffee and cupcakes" with the PJ over the period of 21-24 Sept, or was "encouraged" to do so.

She was charged, no doubt about that. But on what evidence? A "confession"? Forensic evidence? There never was any sufficient to charge anyone, unless the judge found that waving a torch around 10 days later and noticing patches that could have been anything was sufficient.

[stephen25000]

Well it would seem poignant at this point, for all those who think a miscarriage of justice has taken place, then why not take your concerns to the Portuguese government, rather than being keyboard critics.

[Carana]

Rereading this... there were more of the DCCB squad sent down (not just 4):

5. Em 11 de Outubro de 2004, uma equipa da Direcção Central do Combate ao Banditismo (DCCB) da Polícia Judiciária de Lisboa deslocou-se para o Algarve para dar apoio á Directoria de Faro na investigação daquele inquérito;

6. A equipa era constituída pelo arguido Leonel Morgado Marques, inspector- chefe, que a chefiava; e pelos inspectores Paulo António Pereira Cristóvão, Paulo Afonso Sá da Costa Marques Bom e António Fernando Nunes Cardoso, também arguidos; e ainda pelos inspectores Pedro Baptista Marques, Carlos Dordonnat e um outro inspector;

[Carana]

Well it would seem poignant at this point, for all those who think a miscarriage of justice has taken place, then why not take your concerns to the Portuguese government, rather than being keyboard critics.

LOL Stephen, this is hardly the only thead on this entire board with keyboard critics, is it?

[Eleanor]

I know he has Eleanor, and all due credit.   But only after a challenge. It had been stated as "Fact!".

I was merely using this as an example of one of the many things in this case where the "facts" upon which their opinions are founded are, on examination, totally wrong.   

I am well with you all of the way, Jean Pierre.  For God's sake, you know me by now.  But Angelo is a Moderator, and us do try not  diss each other.  Or, at least I do, or not, or whatever.

Yes, so much has been founded on incorrect information, and one of it was who the hell was Leonor's Lawyer.  Thanks to Angelo we now know who was. And I for one applaud him.

Now we have to sort out who Grade was, since he suddenly decamped to Amaral, and then offered to employ Amaral.  So whose side was he on?
At what point did Grade decide?  I have never heard the like of this.  One Lawyer was defending Leonor Cipriano and then became the best buddy of the person who was ultimately responsible for convicting her.

This is utter shit.

[Alice Purjorick]

Well it would seem poignant at this point, for all those who think a miscarriage of justice has taken place, then why not take your concerns to the Portuguese government, rather than being keyboard critics.

Jassi posed pretty much the same question early doors.
No answer came the stern reply.
I don't think anyone knows the rules of appeal in the system.
"I read it the Daily Mail/Mirror/Grauniad or Amaral is convicted perjurer" is unlikely to cut much ice.