Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?

[stephen25000]

LOL Stephen, this is hardly the only thead on this entire board with keyboard critics, is it?

Well, we're all keyboard critics.

However, it comes down to this, mccann supporters by and large believe the Cipriano's are innocent, either for  their analysis of evidence, or because they believe it helps the mccanns. On the other hand, people who believe they are guilty, because they too have examined the evidence, or as a reaction to the mccann mantra.

[Eleanor]

The case had been originally handed over from the GNR to the Portimão PJ after a few days when the child still hadn't been found. The Portimão team were ok, according to Leandro.

However, four days after that (21 Sept), the case was taken over by the Faro boys (at the time, Amaral was part of the Faro PJ).

Then, the DCCB boys came from Lisbon (11 Oct).

Yes, I know this.  But why?  Why did they need the boys from Lisbon?  To belt seven bells of shit out of a helpless woman?
What a crock of shit.  And this is The PJ as they want us to know them.

[Eleanor]

some posters have been treated with contempt on here for simply asking for a cite .......from posters who claim to know all the details on this case. It shows as you say that we are not wrong to question facts and posters should provide cites as forum rules...rather than insult

Try not to push your luck.  I know  that things are sometimes not good.  Leave the insults to me because I am becoming so much better at dealing with this.

[Carana]

Yes, I know this.  But why?  Why did they need the boys from Lisbon?  To belt seven bells of shit out of a helpless woman?
What a crock of shit.  And this is The PJ as they want us to know them.

There's a long section in the torture trial as to what the DCCB boys were there to do... in theory. And what they may have done, but perhaps didn't. Or what they may have done, but weren't supposed to.

Just don't ask me to dig it all out tonight.

[Mr Gray]

Jassi posed pretty much the same question early doors.
No answer came the stern reply.
I don't think anyone knows the rules of appeal in the system.
"I read it the Daily Mail/Mirror/Grauniad or Amaral is convicted perjurer" is unlikely to cut much ice.

what would you expect anyone to do... I think there has been an almost certain miscarriage of justice....does that mean I have to go to portugal and do something about it...who made that rule up

[Mr Gray]

Well it would seem poignant at this point, for all those who think a miscarriage of justice has taken place, then why not take your concerns to the Portuguese government, rather than being keyboard critics.

why not take your concerns re the mccanns to SY

[Carana]

I doubt that there's anything more that can be done re the Cipriano case without substantiated evidence of the "credible, pertinent and relevant" variety at this point.

I just wish that the original trial had stuck to that maxim.

[Eleanor]

There's a long section in the torture trial as to what the DCCB boys were there to do... in theory. And what they may have done, but perhaps didn't. Or what they may have done, but weren't supposed to.

Just don't ask me to dig it all out tonight.

You don't have to.  We all know that it happened.

[Jean-Pierre]

I am well with you all of the way, Jean Pierre.  For God's sake, you know me by now.  But Angelo is a Moderator, and us do try not  diss each other.  Or, at least I do, or not, or whatever.

Yes, so much has been founded on incorrect information, and one of it was who the hell was Leonor's Lawyer.  Thanks to Angelo we now know who was. And I for one applaud him.

Now we have to sort out who Grade was, since he suddenly decamped to Amaral, and then offered to employ Amaral.  So whose side was he on?
At what point did Grade decide?  I have never heard the like of this.  One Lawyer was defending Leonor Cipriano and then became the best buddy of the person who was ultimately responsible for convicting her.

This is utter shit.

I think the turning point for Grade came when, just after he had tabled the torture case against Amaral and co, he was asked totake some stuff into the prisonlleading to a search and his arrest.

Turned out to contain drugs. Possible 15 year sentence.

Subsequently charges were dropped and he and Amaral became best mates. 

Just a coincidence of course. 

[Carana]

I'll be attacked from all sides, but - despite his background - I'm not convinced that João was involved in her disappearance either. I still haven't found anything concrete to that effect.

He had a prior criminal history, smoked dope, had no fixed abode. Few witnesses were called for character references (either for or against), but one employer testified that when he was given a job he had no problems with him. That doesn't mean much, but then no one seems to have taken much notice of his possible innocence.

There is no material evidence that he did what he was alleged to have done.

I find the alleged scenario to be highly unlikely... Not totally impossible, as unlikely scenarios do sometimes happen, but I would expect at least a tiny bit of sound forensic evidence, of which there isn't any.

 

[stephen25000]

I'll be attacked from all sides, but - despite his background - I'm not convinced that João was involved in her disappearance either. I still haven't found anything concrete to that effect.

He had a prior criminal history, smoked dope, had no fixed abode. Few witnesses were called for character references (either for or against), but one employer testified that when he was given a job he had no problems with him. That doesn't mean much, but then no one seems to have taken much notice of his possible innocence.

There is no material evidence that he did what he was alleged to have done.

I find the alleged scenario to be highly unlikely... Not totally impossible, as unlikely scenarios do sometimes happen, but I would expect at least a tiny bit of sound forensic evidence, of which there isn't any.

Is that rather like the coincidence of the brother and sister each blaming each other for Joana's death ?

Mmm.

[Carana]

I think the turning point for Grade came when, just after he had tabled the torture case against Amaral and co, he was asked totake some stuff into the prisonlleading to a search and his arrest.

Turned out to contain drugs. Possible 15 year sentence.

Subsequently charges were dropped and he and Amaral became best mates. 

Just a coincidence of course.

I remember that story in the PT media.

I never found out the end result of what I presume would have been an investigation into it.

[Carana]

Is that rather like the coincidence of the brother and sister each blaming each other for Joana's death ?

Mmm.

I don't know how much bluff techniques could have influenced each of them to accuse the other. It's an age-old technique... which may work in some instances, but can also lead nowhere "useful" (depending on how one understands the term).

[stephen25000]

I don't know how much bluff techniques could have influenced each of them to accuse the other. It's an age-old technique... which may work in some instances, but can also lead nowhere "useful" (depending on how one understands the term).

Or, of course, it's the simple truth.

[Jean-Pierre]

Is that rather like the coincidence of the brother and sister each blaming each other for Joana's death ?

Mmm.

A couple of simple uneducated people.

Chair, bag over head, fists and couple of glass ashtrays.

Case solved.

Are you really that naive, Stephen?