Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?

[stephen25000]

A trim would have been the length of their hair before 3rd of May wouldn't it?

How do you know that ?

Meanwhile what happened to the 90 days ?

By the way have you researched into which anesthetics persist or are rapidly metabolized ?

[Lace]

How do you know that ?

Meanwhile what happened to the 90 days ?

By the way have you researched into which anesthetics persist or are rapidly metabolized ?

It is obvious isn't it?   A trim would trim off some hair to get it back to how it looked before it over grew?   

90 days is 1.5 of hair.

I would presume everything would have been discussed between the person doing the tests and the McCann's,  these scientists know what they are doing Stephen.

[stephen25000]

It is obvious isn't it?   A trim would trim off some hair to get it back to how it looked before it over grew?   

90 days is 1.5 of hair.

I would presume everything would have been discussed between the person doing the tests and the McCann's,  these scientists know what they are doing Stephen.

The tests were after 90 days, as you well  know.

Likewise, retention of a given anaesthetic can vary

[Benice]

One person did phone the PJ in Aug 2007 and request they do drug tests on the two children, but allegedly later that same day another person phoned and cancelled the request.

Not according to Amarals book.   IMO reading between the lines -  he seems to be saying that testing was eventually considered to be too big a task to undertake - although he avoids giving a clear reason why testing didn't happen when it was suggested later on by Kate - just nasty innuendo.    But no mention of a cancellation by the McCanns or anyone else.
 
Quote

From the start, the way the children slept had seemed suspicious to us and we wanted to have screening tests carried out: nevertheless, faced with the media coverage of the case, we had put this off, worried about exposing the parents to trial by the public. This was a mistake.

It is only three months later that Kate speaks about this possibility, suggesting that the police proceed with these tests. The National Institute of Forensic Medicine let's us know that before proceeding with this screening, they would need to know what type of sedative they were looking for. There are hundreds of them on the market. While the grandfather stated on television that Kate gave Calpol to the children to get them to sleep, several months have gone by since May 3rd. Kate, who is a doctor, must be aware that the time for obtaining convincing results has largely passed.

Unquote.

What pathetic excuses.    How could testing for drugs in the first days be seen as 'trial by the public' for anyone?  What about the secrecy laws? 

Note his libellous comments re Mr. Healy who did not claim the twins were given Calpol to make them sleep. 

There is no sedative in Calpol anyway.

If a request for testing had been made and then cancelled  by the McCanns - Amaral would have given us chapter and verse on it in his book - as the PJ would see this as suspicious and would want to know the reason for the cancellation.  But not a word.

IMO Amaral knew he should have arranged testing when the McCanns made enquiries to the PJ via their FLO's in the first days.  He fails to mention that early request from them in his book  - just as he failed to arrange testing - and IMO the above are just his pathetic excuses for his own admitted  ''mistake''.
   

[stephen25000]

Not according to Amarals book.   IMO reading between the lines -  he seems to be saying that testing was eventually considered to be too big a task to undertake - although he avoids giving a clear reason why testing didn't happen when it was suggested later on by Kate - just nasty innuendo.    But no mention of a cancellation by the McCanns or anyone else.
 
Quote

From the start, the way the children slept had seemed suspicious to us and we wanted to have screening tests carried out: nevertheless, faced with the media coverage of the case, we had put this off, worried about exposing the parents to trial by the public. This was a mistake.

It is only three months later that Kate speaks about this possibility, suggesting that the police proceed with these tests. The National Institute of Forensic Medicine let's us know that before proceeding with this screening, they would need to know what type of sedative they were looking for. There are hundreds of them on the market. While the grandfather stated on television that Kate gave Calpol to the children to get them to sleep, several months have gone by since May 3rd. Kate, who is a doctor, must be aware that the time for obtaining convincing results has largely passed.

Unquote.

What pathetic excuses.    How could testing for drugs in the first days be seen as 'trial by public' for anyone?  What about the secrecy laws? 

Note his libellous comments re Mr. Healy who did not claim the twins were given Calpol to make them sleep. 

There is no sedative in Calpol anyway.

If a request for testing had been made and then cancelled  by the McCanns - Amaral would have given us chapter and verse on it in his book - as the PJ would see this as suspicious and would want to know the reason for the cancellation.  But not a word.

IMO Amaral knew he should have arranged testing when the McCanns made enquiries to the PJ via their FLO's in the first days.  He fails to mention that early request from them in his book  - just as he failed to arrange testing - and IMO the above are just his pathetic excuses for his own admitted  ''mistake''.
 

The PJ bear as much responsibility as the mccanns in this.

Even more the mccanns,, as they were doctors.

[Lace]

Not according to Amarals book.   IMO reading between the lines -  he seems to be saying that testing was eventually considered to be too big a task to undertake - although he avoids giving a clear reason why testing didn't happen when it was suggested later on by Kate - just nasty innuendo.    But no mention of a cancellation by the McCanns or anyone else.
 
Quote

From the start, the way the children slept had seemed suspicious to us and we wanted to have screening tests carried out: nevertheless, faced with the media coverage of the case, we had put this off, worried about exposing the parents to trial by the public. This was a mistake.

It is only three months later that Kate speaks about this possibility, suggesting that the police proceed with these tests. The National Institute of Forensic Medicine let's us know that before proceeding with this screening, they would need to know what type of sedative they were looking for. There are hundreds of them on the market. While the grandfather stated on television that Kate gave Calpol to the children to get them to sleep, several months have gone by since May 3rd. Kate, who is a doctor, must be aware that the time for obtaining convincing results has largely passed.

Unquote.

What pathetic excuses.    How could testing for drugs in the first days be seen as 'trial by public' for anyone?  What about the secrecy laws? 

Note his libellous comments re Mr. Healy who did not claim the twins were given Calpol to make them sleep. 

There is no sedative in Calpol anyway.

If a request for testing had been made and then cancelled  by the McCanns - Amaral would have given us chapter and verse on it in his book - as the PJ would see this as suspicious and would want to know the reason for the cancellation.  But not a word.

IMO Amaral knew he should have arranged testing when the McCanns made enquiries to the PJ via their FLO's in the first days.  He fails to mention that early request from them in his book  - just as he failed to arrange testing - and IMO the above are just his pathetic excuses for his own admitted  ''mistake''.
 

Well said Benice and I totally agree with you.   Amaral made excuses for his down falls all the way through his book.

I am disgusted that he used Kate's father in the way he did,  Kate's father said that all he had ever seen Kate and Gerry give Madeleine was Calpol and Amaral used this to accuse the McCann's of sedating their children.

As you said there were secrecy laws,  he could have had the twins tested.

[Lace]

The tests were after 90 days, as you well  know.

Likewise, retention of a given anaesthetic can vary

The parents of Shannon Mathews had been sedating Shannon,  they found this out by testing her hair and went back 20 months.

Are you now saying this is incorrect?

[stephen25000]

The parents of Shannon Mathews had been sedating Shannon,  they found this out by testing her hair and went back 20 months.

Are you now saying this is incorrect?

Well, it was clear the drug use was ongoing.

You know that, don't you ?

[Carana]

A lot has been written over the years concerning the possibility that Madeleine and her twin siblings had been sedated by an intruder.  Indeed, both Kate McCann and Goncalo Amaral make reference to such a possibility in their respective books.

My question is this, did the Polícia Judiciária in Portugal make a gross error in judgement in not testing the twins for signs of sedation at an early stage in the investigation?

25

The PJ could have done so... but they didn't. The idea that they didn't want to do so for fear of the McCanns realising that they were suspects doesn't stand to reason.

All they had to say was that as their daughter had been abducted and that the twins didn't wake up, the twins needed to be checked to verify if they were simply deep sleepers or whether some substance had been used by an abductor.

[stephen25000]

The PJ could have done so... but they didn't. The idea that they didn't want to do so for fear of the McCanns realising that they were suspects doesn't stand to reason.

All they had to say was that as their daughter had been abducted and that the twins didn't wake up, the twins needed to be checked to verify if they were simply deep sleepers or whether some substance had been used by an abductor.

..or by someone.

The mccanns had no excuses either, for not insisting on testing.

[Carana]

..or by someone.

The mccanns had no excuses either, for not insisting on testing.

The PJ was the investigating force. The McCanns did point out their concern. Whether or not they did ask the PT police the night or the next morning, they did ask the UK liaison officers to get the possibility checked out when they arrived (presumably to get the PJ to do so). 

In which country is it up to the parents of a missing child to organise forensics?

[stephen25000]

The PJ was the investigating force. The McCanns did point out their concern. Whether or not they did ask the PT police the night or the next morning, they did ask the UK liaison officers to get the possibility checked out when they arrived (presumably to get the PJ to do so). 

In which country is it up to the parents of a missing child to organise forensics?

I blame both.

Now as Doctors, the mccann should have insisted on it.

They clearly didn't.

[slartibartfast]

I wonder if sedation was first floated on an Internet forum and was then picked up by the players in the case at which time it was too late to do anything to prove or disprove.

[stephen25000]

I wonder if sedation was first floated on an Internet forum and was then picked up by the players in the case at which time it was too late to do anything to prove or disprove.

Indeed.

I could never get over the claim the McCanns made, that the children were drugged.

Yet only acted on it months later, when it was irrelevant, and they expected people to swallow the results.

[Carana]

I blame both.

Now as Doctors, the mccann should have insisted on it.

They clearly didn't.

How do you know that they didn't?

All that can be ascertained from the files is that they raised the issue, but there is nothing to indicate that the PJ acted upon it.