Was the PJ's biggest mistake not testing the twins straight away?

[misty]

Both trained doctors who left children by themselves, whilst they wined and dined, and of course the children were defenseless.

Not exactly good parenting skills.

As to sedatives/anesthetics, how would they know what had been administered ?

After all, humans don't have the olfactory sense that canines have, DO THEY ?

Defenceless against what, Stephen?
 Twins almost comatose, an open window & one child nowhere to be found. What was the GNR's priority? What was the parents' priority? What would the PJ have made of one of the main withesses disappearing off to hospital with the twins for the night?
And some humans have a rubbish sense of smell.

[stephen25000]

Defenceless against what, Stephen?
 Twins almost comatose, an open window & one child nowhere to be found. What was the GNR's priority? What was the parents' priority? What would the PJ have made of one of the main withesses disappearing off to hospital with the twins for the night?
And some humans have a rubbish sense of smell.

1. Are you serious in that first question ?

2. No independent verification the window was ever open before 10 pm.

3. The parents hold equal responsibility with the PJ for not having the children checked, after a few days.

4. Humans do have a rubbish sense of smell compared to dogs.

[misty]

1. Are you serious in that first question ?

2. No independent verification the window was ever open before 10 pm.

3. The parents hold equal responsibility with the PJ for not having the children checked, after a few days.

4. Humans do have a rubbish sense of smell compared to dogs.

1. Yes.
2. No independent verification of Madeleine leaving 5a, but it happened.
3. The victims of crime cannot issue orders to police.
4. The dogs didn't sniff the pillowcase or the twins. Maybe the GNR dogs should have sniffed the pillowcase.

[stephen25000]

1. Yes.
2. No independent verification of Madeleine leaving 5a, but it happened.
3. The victims of crime cannot issue orders to police.
4. The dogs didn't sniff the pillowcase or the twins. Maybe the GNR dogs should have sniffed the pillowcase.

The parents could have taken the other two to hospital for checks.

NO EXCUSES.

[G-Unit]

1. Yes.
2. No independent verification of Madeleine leaving 5a, but it happened.
3. The victims of crime cannot issue orders to police.
4. The dogs didn't sniff the pillowcase or the twins. Maybe the GNR dogs should have sniffed the pillowcase.

I can imagine the fuss if the parents had asked to take the twins to hospital because they feared they had been sedated and the police had refused. As if they would have!

[misty]

The parents could have taken the other two to hospital for checks.

NO EXCUSES.

There were no visible signs indicating a medical emergency. What do you think the hospital staff would have done, other than possibly keep the children in under observation?

[G-Unit]

There were no visible signs indicating a medical emergency. What do you think the hospital staff would have done, other than possibly keep the children in under observation?

I will not answer your post about borders as it's irrelevant, just in case you wonder. Whatever the hospital did it would have eased the concern of the parents (as they were 'very' concerned). Sorry misty, but if that's true then the parents should have acted.

[stephen25000]

There were no visible signs indicating a medical emergency. What do you think the hospital staff would have done, other than possibly keep the children in under observation?

How do you know there were 'no signs' Misty ?

You weren't there.

And as a concerned parent believing my child had been sedated, I would want it checked.

[misty]

How do you know there were 'no signs' Misty ?

You weren't there.

And as a concerned parent believing my child had been sedated, I would want it checked.

Expressing concern is not the same as seeing visible signs of shallow, irregular breathing,  a change in skin pallor or a drop in body temperature. The parents reported none of those signs. One or both of the parents awake & with the twins all through the night, bar an hour's sleep. They are medically trained.
The topic is whether or not the PJ made a big mistake in not testing the twins straight away. The parents were at the police station for most of the next day. The PJ could have arranged for it to be done at that time, with or without the parents' permission. The PJ chose not to do so.

[G-Unit]

Expressing concern is not the same as seeing visible signs of shallow, irregular breathing,  a change in skin pallor or a drop in body temperature. The parents reported none of those signs. One or both of the parents awake & with the twins all through the night, bar an hour's sleep. They are medically trained.
The topic is whether or not the PJ made a big mistake in not testing the twins straight away. The parents were at the police station for most of the next day. The PJ could have arranged for it to be done at that time, with or without the parents' permission. The PJ chose not to do so.

I think parents get concerned very easily. Doctors tend to become concerned only if there's a reason to do so. For two doctors to be very concerned suggests there was something to be concerned about. What it was I don't know and neither do you.

You accuse the PJ of 'choosing' not to test the twins on 4th May. For them to make a choice the subject had to be discussed. There's no evidence that it was. If the matter wasn't discussed then there was no choice made.

[misty]

I think parents get concerned very easily. Doctors tend to become concerned only if there's a reason to do so. For two doctors to be very concerned suggests there was something to be concerned about. What it was I don't know and neither do you.

You accuse the PJ of 'choosing' not to test the twins on 4th May. For them to make a choice the subject had to be discussed. There's no evidence that it was. If the matter wasn't discussed then there was no choice made.

It was not up to the parents to suggest strategy to the PJ. The PJ no doubt had protocols & procedures in place for missing & abducted children. Had senior officers attended the scene when it quickly became apparent something was amiss & noted that 2 other young children, still in situ, were seemingly unresponsive to the stimulus around,  them, perhaps more appropriate action could have been taken. Being dependent on a victim asking for a certain procedure to be undertaken is not the way police operate - in fact, it arouses suspicion. But then, every action taken  or word spoken by the parents is suspicious in certain quarters.
There were concerns & allegations regarding the amount of alcohol the parents had consumed. I'm surprised no-one is questioning why they weren't subjected to a breath test.

[G-Unit]

It was not up to the parents to suggest strategy to the PJ. The PJ no doubt had protocols & procedures in place for missing & abducted children. Had senior officers attended the scene when it quickly became apparent something was amiss & noted that 2 other young children, still in situ, were seemingly unresponsive to the stimulus around,  them, perhaps more appropriate action could have been taken. Being dependent on a victim asking for a certain procedure to be undertaken is not the way police operate - in fact, it arouses suspicion. But then, every action taken  or word spoken by the parents is suspicious in certain quarters.
There were concerns & allegations regarding the amount of alcohol the parents had consumed. I'm surprised no-one is questioning why they weren't subjected to a breath test.

It wasn't up to the parents to suggest strategy to the police but that didn't stop them from telling the police what crime had been committed, asking for more police and dogs to be brought in and for the borders to be closed.

It was up to the parents, particularly as they are doctors, to make sure their remaining children were OK. If those two doctors were very concerned it was up to them do something about it.

[misty]

It wasn't up to the parents to suggest strategy to the police but that didn't stop them from telling the police what crime had been committed, asking for more police and dogs to be brought in and for the borders to be closed.

It was up to the parents, particularly as they are doctors, to make sure their remaining children were OK. If those two doctors were very concerned it was up to them do something about it.

At the time Madeleine went missing, Kate & Gerry were parents first & foremost, not doctors. I realise, from your own admission you can't empathise with them, that you fail to understand the magnitude of the dilemmas they faced during those long overnight hours. One parent at the hospital & one parent left at the scene would have merely compounded their stress but they were surrounded by trained medical professionals in one form or another. The 24hr LuzDoc was also nearby should assistance be required.

[stephen25000]

Expressing concern is not the same as seeing visible signs of shallow, irregular breathing,  a change in skin pallor or a drop in body temperature. The parents reported none of those signs. One or both of the parents awake & with the twins all through the night, bar an hour's sleep. They are medically trained.
The topic is whether or not the PJ made a big mistake in not testing the twins straight away. The parents were at the police station for most of the next day. The PJ could have arranged for it to be done at that time, with or without the parents' permission. The PJ chose not to do so.

The mccanns and the PJ were both at fault.

It is empirically obvious the twins should have been tested.

A potential key piece of evidence was ignored.

There was plenty of time in the following weeks to test the twins.

[G-Unit]

At the time Madeleine went missing, Kate & Gerry were parents first & foremost, not doctors. I realise, from your own admission you can't empathise with them, that you fail to understand the magnitude of the dilemmas they faced during those long overnight hours. One parent at the hospital & one parent left at the scene would have merely compounded their stress but they were surrounded by trained medical professionals in one form or another. The 24hr LuzDoc was also nearby should assistance be required.

Some of your points stress the fact that they were doctors and knew what they were dealing with. Others have them as worried parents who didn't know what to do.

Either way it was up to them to act if they were 'very concerned', whichever hat they were wearing that night.